I could use some help. I'm not much of an outdoorsman. I don't go camping or hunting. We do enjoy some hiking and love the views sometimes afforded.

Increasingly, I'm hearing reports from other hikers that (black) bear and mountain lion sightings are much more common.

I am not one who is able to determine what intentions an approaching bear or lion may have. I realize some of this may be just curiosity or bluffing or assessing. But I can't tell the difference between that and an impending attack. Honestly, I'd probably be scared shitless.

It sounds like, generally (and barring surprise encounters and/or cubs) black bears and lions will try to avoid people; seems like black bear encounters are especially infrequent. That being said, would still like to be prepared for an aggressive encounter.

Appreciate some advice:
1) seems like there is a debate for approaching animals - whether to use spray or pistol first. I'm more inclined to shoot. Weighing things under duress like wind awareness and speed to deployment and efficacy by distance and tool reliability. If I have one chance to do something, which to choose? I like the "spread" aspect of spray but concerned about reliability and efficacy if I misjudge wind, direction of travel, distance, etc. Pistol round is 10mm flat nose hardcast 200gr (underwood)

2) if I decide to get bear spray, seems like this state limits carry size to 2.5oz or less. That's a 1-2 sec pulse? Is this even practically interesting? Does this still have utility? Or should I just skip spray given this limitation? If still worth it, recommendations for brand and model?

3) What do you do to be aware of a lion stalking from behind? A hiker was telling me that lions are being observed on this new trial I was trying. I found myself looking back every min or so. That started to get tiresome mentally and physically. The hike was not enjoyable for me - I was looking everywhere for signs of a lion, especially in deeper brush / weeds and near trees with some undergrowth (if I were a lion, I'd camp there - shady, comfortable, good concealment until right next to it). So, I'm trying to be aware in 360 degrees all the time. Not enjoyable. What do I really need to be doing?

I've worked in bear country and have been made aware of the bear dangers. As you said, they would rather avoid humans. I was told that you should talk with your hiking buddies. Voices will alert the bears to your presence so they aren't surprised and will vacate the trail before you even see them normally. What you don't want is to spook a bear at a bend in the trail.

1. If you are hiking in a group, let someone else carry the spray and you provide cover in the event it's ineffective.

2. That 2 seconds will feel like an eternity. Its plenty. Bears normally turn tail at the first hint of the stuff in their eyes and nostrils.

3. I'd spin around every couple minutes and just take a quick look behind me. Not sure what else you could do.

2.5 ounces? No, that's not right. The cans I have are at least 10 oz. Maybe you're looking at the carry limitations for pepper spray or for self defense.

Let's get the stupid, ubiquitous comment out of the way first - file off the front sights first so it doesn't hurt so much whem the bear shoves the gun up your ass.

There is a Sigforumite who is retired ranger from the National Parks. His last place was Yellowstone so very few people will have more bear encounters than him. Hopefully, he'll chime in.

1. When I lived in Alaska I carried a 454 Casull for bear. My preference was to hike with someone carrying bear spray (8.1 ounce Counterassault that sprays for over 7 seconds). Never had to implement the plan, but it was to spray the 2 second warning spray if bear acting aggressive. Hopefully that deterred it. If it charged, they were spraying the rest of the canister and I was firing the 454.

2. That is dumb even by California standards. International Grizzly Bear Committee recommends a minimum of 7.9 ounces.

3. Can't help with mountain lions

Sounds like you're being a bit paranoid especially being on guard for mountain lions. When hiking in bear country it's safer to hike with a buddy or two and make ever attempt to make sure bears can hear you coming so you don't surprise them. Mountain lions are elusive and you probably won't know one is stalking you until it's to late to deploy a gun or spray. When I was heading into grizzly bear country most experts recommended bear spray for self defense against bears. How many people in a sudden crisis situation can deploy a firearm, get off not only an accurate shot but a deadly shot that puts the bear down before the bear can put you down? With bear spray accuracy isn't as essential just that you can deploy the spray and pull the trigger.

I was deer hunting with some buddies back when I was around 19 and we had a Mountain Lion follow us around, never getting very close, for a full day.

Here's a bit of trivia about Mountain Lion attacks on people in the United States:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...cularly%20vulnerable.

A total of 126 attacks, 27 of which were fatal,have been documented in North America in the past 100 years. Fatal cougar attacks are extremely rare and occur much less frequently than fatal snake bites, fatal lightning strikes, or fatal bee stings.

Yes, on a gun forum, most like guns, no surprise there. Depending on where you are, spray can be easier. Yes, I’d like to carry a gun, mostly for reasons other than bear or lions, depending where.

Generally, the threshold for deploying spay is lower than deciding to shoot. That’s one of the biggies to me. Of course, with a low likelihood, full blown charge, do whatever you want.

I have seen cases where a guy shot a bear, then was asked questions about the encounter. One I know was cited for shooting a bear that didn’t need shooting. I think this was more a bear around his house or camp bothering things, not a charge in the wilderness.

I think a lot depends on where you are, as to the prep. If in such an area, I’d rather have bear spray with than nothing. Remember that guide recently killed near Yellowstone while fishing alone. He was well versed dealing with bears, may of had spray, but still surprised & killed by a griz.

I always have a well trained dog with me, and the only time he ever wears a color it has at least a set of dog tags that ring like a bell. The dog will know if you are being trailed or if something is waiting along the trail for you, be it human or animal.

Bear spray is an excellent idea, TMK feral dogs are a much larger issue than bears and cougars.

American Bear spray isn't legal in Canada so beware of that if crossing the border.

I'm confused with CA law - it seems to suggests that you can carry only up to 2.5oz. Prime won't ship to CA. But online, stores seem to carry 8-10oz cans for sale in CA. I'll go into a store to see if I can buy one off the shelf. What's recommended these days? I see Sabre Frontiersman, Udap and Counter Attack. Anything in particular most recommended?

Again, I like the spread aspect of spray. But I have concerns, for example, using it into a headwind. Or even having to be aware that I'm facing a headwind. And sudden gusts of headwinds (while the cloud is still in the air). And I'm reading about can failures. Fail to spray. Spray duration shorter in time and distance than advertised. Etc. But again, the spread aspect is nice, for bear and especially for a lion.

OTOH, I'm concerned about good hits and the efficacy of those hits. Reading that you really need a head/spine shot to be effective.

So, neither spray nor pistol sound ideal. Given an opportunity to deploy only one, I'm still not sure which would be best for me (again, likely lion over bear).

quote:

Originally posted by calugo:
Sounds like you're being a bit paranoid especially being on guard for mountain lions.

It's a good discussion to have, as mountain lion populations in many areas have exploded. Growing up around here, I didn't see a cat in the wild until my mid 20s, and I spent more time in the woods back then than most. Nowadays, cats are everywhere. Blame the gating of roads, the BS hunting regulations, or whatever...fact is, they are now in most places, and being aware of them is important. If you've ever seen the result of a cat mauling, it would be all you need to be puckered up out in the woods.

My only bear spray story doesn't involve a bear. I bought a can when it became the rage...just because. One day, while out huckleberry picking in bear country, I thought that I'd better get an idea of what this stuff does. It was a calm blue-skied day and I was on a trail in the mountains where the breeze tends to swirl around a bit. I touched off a around one second spray in what I thought was a safe direction. The breeze changed and blew it all around. I was pretty much immediately incapacitated. I couldn't breathe or see and my only thought was panic and getting away from it. I ran as fast as I could and thankfully was able to get away from it, but it was certainly an eye-opener.

As a former crew member on a rescue helicopter in NW MT, I've flown on multiple bear maulings and spoken with many people (including Glacier Park Rangers) who have deployed bear spray effectively. It does work...depending on the situation. With a pissed off charging bear, you're likely screwed, but with one that is trying to decide whether or not to charge it'll likely help. I still carry a 44 or G20.

I am not aware of anyone successfully defending themselves against a black bear with it, as those encounters are extremely rare, at least around here. The black bears that I have encountered would much rather be where I am not than anything else.

Yea, I've heard that black bears will try to avoid people. But if you both get surprised in an encounter, it's more unpredictable.

I've heard lions attack people. Not just in the sparsely populated areas but also in parks that can be crowded, on bike trails (paved!) in suburban areas and such. I've heard of people get stalked but with a good ending (lion disengaged). Perhaps deaths are not common but I seem to be hearing about more and more encounters; some do result in death.

Of the two, I think a lion attack is more probable. But probably still rare. Even so, I'd like to be prepared. Just not sure what would work best for me.

It doesn't hurt to carry spray. I guess one key question is, if limited by law, is 2.5oz worth carrying?

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:
Here's a bit of trivia about Mountain Lion attacks on people in the United States:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...cularly%20vulnerable.

A total of 126 attacks, 27 of which were fatal,have been documented in North America in the past 100 years. Fatal cougar attacks are extremely rare and occur much less frequently than fatal snake bites, fatal lightning strikes, or fatal bee stings.

That is not an all inclusive list.

Risk is low. I wouldn't worry about it unless you are truly backcountry in the high sierras.

Bear spray is a pain to carry and deploy. The cans are large, they aren't shaped like pistols, and you won't get enough training on them to get familiar with the safety and draw. It does no good in your pack. You'll need to figure out how to rig it up into a holstered configuration.

If you can CCW, then do so. 2 legged threats would be the greater concern anyway.

That said, I have and do carry bear spray when I'm in overnighting in the back country (in addition to my CCW where permissable). I have the bear spray rigged to a chest pack or to my backpack strap. Bear spray, in that use case, is a deterrent for curious bears that might be encroaching into my campsite or possibly following on trail. Those are situations where it would be unconscionable to shoot a bear (and probably land me in jail, being in CA), so a dusting of spray in the air might be enough to encourage a bear to move along.

Bear spray deploys as a heavy mist. It's supposed to linger in the air and create a curtain that the bear must pass through. You aren't going to hit the bear with a stream at stand-off distances.

REI sells bear spray. Walmart does too I'm pretty sure.

Suggest maybe go check out some bear versus bear spray videos on YouTube. If you’ve never been in a bear attack at least seeing a few might help.

Try to find someone credible who talks about the strategies and ranges for bear spray.

I think that in California, Bear spray is legal
to use on bears only,no other animals or humans.
The brand you pick must be listed as a pesticide with the EPA.

My cousin, who is a California State Park Ranger (what a great job) thought this was decent advice.




Be big, be loud, be alert. If you are noisy, you will scare bears away before you see them. Same for cats, unless they have decided to stalk you, in which case, good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
If you can CCW, then do so. 2 legged threats would be the greater concern anyway.

I've carried my CCW on the last two multiple day hikes in Yosemite and the Lost Coast. Never had to use it thankfully. Although thought about it on those two rattlesnakes!

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
Bear spray is a pain to carry and deploy. The cans are large, they aren't shaped like pistols, and you won't get enough training on them to get familiar with the safety and draw. It does no good in your pack. You'll need to figure out how to rig it up into a holstered configuration.

When in Alaska, I owned several the Counterassault bear spray and several 3-in-1 holster so that I could outfit myself and out of state visitors. Visitors typically used as chest holster since it wouldn't interfere with their backpack or fishing waders. For myself, I had my 454 Casull in a chest holster so I attached the 3-in-1 holster to my back pack straps so it didn't interfere with my backpack, fishing waders, or 454 Casull.

As far as training, Counterassault also sells an inert training canister. It's kind of eye opening to see the 2 second warning spray and the 5 second charge spray in real life vs a video. Also, nice to practice drawing something and deploying with no risk of setting off bear spray.

Here is a story of leaving your protection in a backpack. My female employee's husband was deployed to A-stan, and was granted leave. He came back to Alaska and got some fishing in. One day, he set his backpack down on the shore and waded into the river. He heard a noise, looked back, and there was a bear going through his backpack for food. The problem was he left his gun and bearspray in the backpack so he got to hang out in the river until the bear lost interest in the backpack.