https://www.foxnews.com/us/tex...texas-injured-active

Thank God others were armed in this church today. Happened west of Ft Worth during service. Two dead, including shooter, one in crtical condition. Even though one citizen was killed, it could have been far worse if not for an armed citizen/volunteer.

This live stream video of the shooting (NSFW) is very interesting because it clearly shows all of it, the threat, the response, and the aftermath, all in a matter of seconds, showing a real-life concealed carry scenario.

It is sad one person was killed, but thankfully armed people fought back.

Edit: new video link

This message has been edited. Last edited by: oddball,

Unreal. Thankfully the armed response was quick.

That fella that got shot was slow on the draw. He knew something was up and didn’t get to his gun fast enough. That’s tough to watch. Thank God there were other armed men there. Looked like the bad guy had a Mossberg Shockwave.

Watch this video several times and you will see that the church member that took out this gunman made one hell of a shot..Almost makes me think he was active LEO or recently retired...That man saved many lives by his quick and accurate actions....Mark

The video clearly illustrates the importance of choosing to have a round in the pipe while carrying.

VERY interesting to see just how many others were carrying, as well.

A very sad day, but a great shoot from a man who knew where to put his shot.

No doubt the security team responded well in this case. And watch the crowd. At least one person went into hysterics. You can never guess how people around you are going to react in such a situation.

I counted six armed congregants, including one woman I believe (keeps her pistol raised most of the time) who is shepherding the folks in that section of the church out. It appears the perp actually had his arm out and intent on harm when responder #1 attempted to draw from the small of his back.

What is up with the two guys that come running in sweeping everyone and anyone? Looks like the guy in the back has his finger on the trigger as he is sweeping the elderly gentlemen. They look confused, and they appear to be pointing their guns at anything and everything.

While I am completely happy that a good guy with a gun stepped up quickly, we can't ignore the bad we see because of the favorable outcome this time.

That is horrible. It also illustrates how fast things can happen. In the blink of an eye.

It will be interesting to find out who the shooter was and if he was a regular congregation member. Looks like he was wearing a trench style coat to conceal the shotgun. I would of thought that would of been something someone would of checked out while he entered or mingled with church members prior to the service.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
While I am completely happy that a good guy with a gun stepped up quickly, we can't ignore the bad we see because of the favorable outcome this time.

Agreed. There's a lot of hard lessons in those 40 seconds of video.

old rugged cross is correct. The whole thing took about 10 seconds or less. Great response by the security team.

quote:

the church member that took out this gunman made one hell of a shot..Almost makes me think he was active LEO or recently retired.

If you look close it appears that he's wearing some sort of duty belt with magazine pouches. He may be a LEO or security officer hired to be there.

People in hysterics is the last thing I want to see, and my only complaint is that once the shooter is down those shot are not getting tended to immediately.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
What is up with the two guys that come running in sweeping everyone and anyone? Looks like the guy in the back has his finger on the trigger as he is sweeping the elderly gentlemen. They look confused, and they appear to be pointing their guns at anything and everything.

While I am completely happy that a good guy with a gun stepped up quickly, we can't ignore the bad we see because of the favorable outcome this time.

You're right of course....but given that this was probably their first gunfight....they certainly performed as well as many law enforcement folks have in the past. JMO....

That's about as fast as one can react if giving others the benefit of the doubt that they mean no harm until they show their weapon. Indeed carrying chambered and frankly, without a safety to fiddle with is about the best one can do there. I think being trained and drilled would have probably prevented the few seconds of doubt between the perp and his first victim who looked like he was drawing but not decisively. It was hard to watch. Those poor innocent people.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
People in hysterics is the last thing I want to see

The one woman who was running around screaming hysterically literally had a front row seat for the gun battle.

Not far from where my oldest lives.

Guy with the slow draw paid heavily.

It happened really quick. I doubt I could have done much better.

Great shot putting the perp horizontal.

quote:

Originally posted by mike28w:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
What is up with the two guys that come running in sweeping everyone and anyone? Looks like the guy in the back has his finger on the trigger as he is sweeping the elderly gentlemen. They look confused, and they appear to be pointing their guns at anything and everything.

While I am completely happy that a good guy with a gun stepped up quickly, we can't ignore the bad we see because of the favorable outcome this time.

You're right of course....but given that this was probably their first gunfight....they certainly performed as well as many law enforcement folks have in the past. JMO....

The one guy obviously was-

1- Extremely lucky
2- The product of solid training. (more likely).

Remember all those who crow on about "average" gunfights? That distance shot was the money. He then had really good muzzle awareness as he moved in and around people.

We need to expect more from our cops as well when it comes to haphazardly pointing guns at everything and anything.

quote:

Originally posted by sigarmsp226:
...the church member that took out this gunman made one hell of a shot..Almost makes me think he was active LEO or recently retired...That man saved many lives by his quick and accurate actions....Mark

My wife’s family is familiar which that church. Area around it has a lot of homelessness and gang activity. Don’t know which member reported it, but the member who made the saving shot seems to have been a former FBI agent.
Everything happened in less than 6 seconds.

It is all about the command decision loop.

I have been as trained as any civilian probably will be. I do not know if I would have made it through the command decision loop faster than the guy. I wont criticize him for a slow draw. He did make the decision, started the draw but was just not in time. The bad guy, had made his decision and due to the circumstances, had already made his decision and was just bringing it up, and firing.

If I was ramped up and prepared for the long gun to appear, maybe I beat him. but he comes up and fires and it is quick. at CSAT, and in Practice, I can draw and engage in just less than a second. But I am not making a decision, that has been made, this guy has to make a decision and THEN the one second kicks in.

Again, it is haunting and terrifying, but I do not know if I would have beaten that either. Maybe there is a soldier sense, a cop sense or something that might have triggered a warning that something was about to go down but in todays world, 'reaching or putting your hand on a gun (whether present or not)' is assault with a deadly weapon, so we are trained not to do it.

But to finish, others were also making the Command Decision loop, drew their weapons and engaged the threat. the idiots sweeping others need to be trained.

they seem to have taken the video down while I was typing this.