quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
A good leader also knows when a very public hanging is necessary to make the point.

From the description of what was going on, here, the latter was the case.

"Call me" is all it would have taken to pull the lever. Anything else is dragging the body through the streets.

quote:

Originally posted by Micropterus:

"Call me" is all it would have taken to pull the lever. Anything else is dragging the body through the streets.

Now you are just nit-picking. . .

A "good" leader might do what you suggest. An "effective" leader does what the Cheif did.

If the guy had been an airman with several months time in service, I might agree to argue the point.

A Staff Sergeant, with 4 or more years know full well what proper Bearing and Behavior is and why it is important.

He has likely been through a few leadership courses at this point.

He stepped on his dick and needed a public accounting. He made an embarrassing taunt on the worldwide stage to a rank and office of the highest regard to the enlisted.

If I were in his direct chain of command and had the authority and ability, I would show his ass the front gate and the road to the "First Civilian Wing".

The position of CMSAF could be abolished tomorrow and 99.9% of the Air Force wouldn't even notice.

quote:

Originally posted by Micropterus:

quote:

She also stated publicly that it is pronounced "Bass".

I'm glad that's at least cleared. I would have called her "Bass."

I have never heard anyone with that surname pronounce it any way other than the fish--never. That would be my default pronunciation.

flashguy

This is an interesting thread. Those who understand military discipline see this very differently than those who see it as petty and no big deal.

It’s actually very fascinating to me. A staff NCO that did this in the Marines would find himself a E-5. Along with a transfer to another unit. On another continent. He set a bad example for all the E-2 and E-3s that witnessed it.

And it would be a righteous demotion.

quote:

Originally posted by Dawes:
The position of CMSAF could be abolished tomorrow and 99.9% of the Air Force wouldn't even notice.

I strongly disagree. When I was in the Army, the Commanding Colonel of the brigade was respected because of his (or her) rank. The Command Sergeant Major was respected because of who he was, and what he represented. I knew plenty of people who thought the Commander was an ass. I never ran into one person who didn't like the CSM, both as a person, and a role.

Good ones are the representative of the enlisted ranks to the command structure, and they are highly valued.

RHIP(rank has its privilidges) to a point. Having served as a Army Drill Sgt. (field artillery) and held the rank of Staff Sgt (E-6) with (9 1/2 yrs active duty) there are times for things to be done in private as well in public. God bless our troops be they past/present/future. ........................... drill sgt.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
This is an interesting thread. Those who understand military discipline see this very differently than those who see it as petty and no big deal.

It’s actually very fascinating to me. A staff NCO that did this in the Marines would find himself a E-5. Along with a transfer to another unit. On another continent. He set a bad example for all the E-2 and E-3s that witnessed it.

And it would be a righteous demotion.

You were a Marine?

I've got no issues with it. Apparently this was an ongoing issue on an account viewable by the public. Messages had been sent privately about how to not behave on official accounts. By hammering the troll publicly, she sends a message to everyone else that such behavior will not be allowed. The actual corrective action that gets handled behind closed doors will be private, as it should be. He will become one of those legends that establish policy and is held up as an example of "don't do this".

He's lucky. In another decade or two he'd get transferred to Space Force and reassigned to one of Saturn's moons counting space rocks.

quote:

Originally posted by Micropterus:
You were a Marine?

For life.

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:

quote:

Originally posted by Dawes:
The position of CMSAF could be abolished tomorrow and 99.9% of the Air Force wouldn't even notice.

I strongly disagree. When I was in the Army, the Commanding Colonel of the brigade was respected because of his (or her) rank. The Command Sergeant Major was respected because of who he was, and what he represented. I knew plenty of people who thought the Commander was an ass. I never ran into one person who didn't like the CSM, both as a person, and a role.

Good ones are the representative of the enlisted ranks to the command structure, and they are highly valued.

In the USAF, the overwhelming majority of folks will never meet the Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force, or really care about him/her. It's a name they have to memorize for a board appearance. All the critical decisions (both good and bad) are made by the SecDef, Chief Of Staff, and on down through the MAJCOM commanders and so forth. CMSAF is a post for a Chief to spend the last four years of their career, retire, and go into the history books. I spent 20 years in the USAF and can say that I never saw any impact on the enlisted force that came from that particular office.

quote:

Originally posted by Dawes:

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:

quote:

Originally posted by Dawes:
The position of CMSAF could be abolished tomorrow and 99.9% of the Air Force wouldn't even notice.

I strongly disagree. When I was in the Army, the Commanding Colonel of the brigade was respected because of his (or her) rank. The Command Sergeant Major was respected because of who he was, and what he represented. I knew plenty of people who thought the Commander was an ass. I never ran into one person who didn't like the CSM, both as a person, and a role.

Good ones are the representative of the enlisted ranks to the command structure, and they are highly valued.

In the USAF, the overwhelming majority of folks will never meet the Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force, or really care about him/her. It's a name they have to memorize for a board appearance. All the critical decisions (both good and bad) are made by the SecDef, Chief Of Staff, and on down through the MAJCOM commanders and so forth. CMSAF is a post for a Chief to spend the last four years of their career, retire, and go into the history books. I spent 20 years in the USAF and can say that I never saw any impact on the enlisted force that came from that particular office.

I don't recall that the office even existed when I was in USAF (1960-1980).

flashguy

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by Micropterus:
You were a Marine?

For life.

Congrats. My son is a Marine. And I'm a proud Marine dad. He's well into his second enlistment. He comes from a long line of Army officers, my dad, grandfather and his father all being retired Colonels. In fact, all the male relatives on my dad's side have been Army officers since before the Civil War. We joke him that that Army line had to skip a generation somewhere so his becoming a Marine wouldn't make heads explode.

I never served in the military. I went through 4 years of Army ROTC in college including a summer at Ft. Bragg, and spent my 5th year in college as part of the cadre while I picked up a second major. When the Gramm Rudman budget cuts kicked in and there were significant force size reductions, my "academic misalignment" and the fact that my scholarship was not an ROTC scholarship allowed me to avail myself of a voluntary disenrollment. By that time I had decided that if I had to fulfill my commitment, it would only be the 4 year commitment as by then I wanted to pursue other options. Getting out allowed me to start that path 4 years sooner.

Since then, I've principally worked with a military-aligned private company. After nearly 30 years with that company I've not only had the honor of meeting, but spending some time with and working for some of the most senior members of the various branches, as well as the other uniformed services such as the US Public Health Service. I've had opportunities to spend time at the Service Academies. I've gotten to meet guys like Tex Hill, Joe Foss and several other military legends. It's been a great ride and I regret nothing regarding military service.

^^^^^^^^^

I’ve forced my son to shop the services. 15 minutes ago, he announced that he has made a decision.

He is going to be a Marine. Proud doesn’t cover the way I feel right now. He’ll be the fourth generation to stand on those yellow footprints.

Oorah!

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
^^^^^^^^^

I’ve forced my son to shop the services. 15 minutes ago, he announced that he has made a decision.

He is going to be a Marine. Proud doesn’t cover the way I feel right now.

Congrats to him. Moreover, congrats to you. It's a great service and the transformation is incredible. I thanked my son's DI at his Boot Camp Graduation because the change in him from when he left was so profound I wondered if it was the same kid. I told him I gave you a young man and you made him a Marine. Didn't think DIs smiled, but he did.

I grew with an Army Colonel as a dad. That wasn't the easiest thing to do. Even though he was in the Army, he served in combat with the Marines. He was in Vietnam from late 1966 to 1967 as the Operations Officer for the 2/94th field artillery at Marine Base Camp JJ Carroll in northern South Vietnam. The Marines, you see, didn't have heavy artillery and dad's unit was attached to them for fire support. He fired in support of Khe Sahn, among others. I grew up with more Marine Corp stuff in our house than Army stuff. Sometimes I didn't know if my dad was Army or Marine.

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:

quote:

Originally posted by Dawes:

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:

quote:

Originally posted by Dawes:
The position of CMSAF could be abolished tomorrow and 99.9% of the Air Force wouldn't even notice.

I strongly disagree. When I was in the Army, the Commanding Colonel of the brigade was respected because of his (or her) rank. The Command Sergeant Major was respected because of who he was, and what he represented. I knew plenty of people who thought the Commander was an ass. I never ran into one person who didn't like the CSM, both as a person, and a role.

Good ones are the representative of the enlisted ranks to the command structure, and they are highly valued.

In the USAF, the overwhelming majority of folks will never meet the Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force, or really care about him/her. It's a name they have to memorize for a board appearance. All the critical decisions (both good and bad) are made by the SecDef, Chief Of Staff, and on down through the MAJCOM commanders and so forth. CMSAF is a post for a Chief to spend the last four years of their career, retire, and go into the history books. I spent 20 years in the USAF and can say that I never saw any impact on the enlisted force that came from that particular office.

I don't recall that the office even existed when I was in USAF (1960-1980).

flashguy

It's been around since 1967.

Jerry Jones, here's a some pics of my son's Graduation. Share them with your son. Hope they bring back some good memories for you, too. I hope the link works.

Let your son know that when he leaves MEPS to go to Parris Island, he'll leave on a fine black party bus with comfy seats, wood grain finish, air conditioning, and pretty lighting. He'll get out of sight of all the parents, and that bus will pull over. And he'll disembark and be put on a big, white school bus with blacked out windows and crappy seats for the haul down to SC.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/XRJ9WZzVacsqH3eFA

quote:

Originally posted by Micropterus:
Jerry Jones, here's a some pics of my son's Graduation. Share them with your son. Hope they bring back some good memories for you, too. I hope the link works.

Those were awesome, thanks for sharing! I don’t have kids, but I can’t imagine another moment that could give a father so much pride.