quote:

Originally posted by Micropterus:
I think she sounds like an asshole.

Were you ever in the military? If so: I'm surprised by your take. If not: I understand it.

(I disagree with you, either way.)

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:
This is about the Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force. This is the highest non-commissioned rank in the Air Force. There is one of these, world wide. She is a BIG DEAL. She is the personal adviser to the Chief of Staff of the Air Force, and the Secretary of the Air Force for all 600,000 enlisted airmen.

I was an Army captain, and if speaking to her I would call her "Chief Master Sergeant Bass" the first time in an interaction I addressed her, and "Chief Bass" if the conversation continued. She would never be "Sergeant Bass" or simply "Bass".

This rank indicates a level of commitment to the Air Force, a commitment to excellence, and a dedication to the institution of the Air Force and it's airmen that is extraordinary.

This right here. Artie nailed it.

She has earned her rank. Show her some fucking respect. Banks sounds like a mouth breather.

Anyone that mouths off to a superior deserves what they get.

If you see it as “petty”, I would hazard a guess that you never served in a line unit.

There is a chain of command, and acting that way comes with a price. I couldn’t imagine the shit that would have rained down if I did that to a Sergeant Major, let alone the Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenInWV:

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:

SSG Banks is one of almost 62,000 SSGs in the USAF. He knew he was being an ass in public, and he knew he was being disrespectful.

Actually, I imagine there are 0 SSGs in the USAF. But there are 62K SSgts.

Doesn't the Army have Staff Sergeants, too?

flashguy

Army Staff Sergeant (E-6) is abbreviated "SSG".
USAF Staff Sergeant (E-5) is abbreviated "SSgt".

Yeah, I see it as petty. And unprofessional. And apparently, so do others.

The SSgt deserved to be dealt with. A simple "call me" would have sufficed. Commenting further on the dealings, in a separate post no less, was unprofessional. As someone else said, "dick swinging." She earned her right to swing her dick, but one does that privately and doesn't comment on it publicly, and call out the recipient by name.

Why would she write that she has a sense of "humour?" An American would use 'humor.'

As I stated in my last post this is my last couple of years and I am done with the military. I am finally getting my shot at the MOS I have wanted for years but after this hitch I am done.

With that being said I think the military spends too much time on social media, training by power point, and stupid phone apps.

The NCO should know better and knew what he was doing. If he does stupid stunts like this what is he teaching or what image does it give off to the junior soldiers under him.

If it was me I would have not responded on face book and contacted the junior NCO directly to get my point across.

One of the problems of society and being raised in a social media based society is that people get to comfortable posting items online whether it is person information, stupid comments, or "trolling". There is no way this NCO would have done what he did in person.

I would like to know how she pronounces her name though.

No matter what side you are on in this debate:
There is one scientifically proven fact:::
Common sense went out the window years and years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by Micropterus:
Yeah, I see it as petty. And unprofessional. And apparently, so do others.

The SSgt deserved to be dealt with. A simple "call me" would have sufficed. Commenting further on the dealings, in a separate post no less, was unprofessional. As someone else said, "dick swinging." She earned her right to swing her dick, but one does that privately and doesn't comment on it publicly, and call out the recipient by name.

It is Air Force doctrine to praise in public, and criticize in private. But sometimes you have to send a loud message. This guy chose to screw with her in a public forum, and she responded in kind, on the public forum HE chose. To follow up, she did speak to Banks on the phone afterward. I am sure he was in his Command Chief's office bright and early the following morning and now he, along with 62,000 other SSgts, gets the picture. She also stated publicly that it is pronounced "Bass".

quote:

She also stated publicly that it is pronounced "Bass".

I'm glad that's at least cleared. I would have called her "Bass."

quote:

Originally posted by HayesGreener:

But sometimes you have to send a loud message. This guy chose to screw with her in a public forum, and she responded in kind, on the public forum HE chose. To follow up, she did speak to Banks on the phone afterward. I am sure he was in his Command Chief's office bright and early the following morning and now he, along with 62,000 other SSgts, gets the picture.

Her follow-up message on Monday also made it clear that she had a good conversation with SSgt Banks, and basically that there were no hard feelings. It was very gracious and conciliatory towards the SSgt, letting everybody know that the issue was closed as far as the CMSAF was concerned (it's an entirely different matter how his chain of command handles it, but that will be in private).

Stuff like this needs to be dealt with strongly. It was disrespectful. When I was a Senior NCO, there was no way in heck I would have allowed any of my NCOs to speak to any Chief Master Sergeant like this, ESPECIALLY not the CMSAF. Yes, one corrects in private, but in certain cases when the offense (like this one) was done in public, a public correction is necessary.

Years ago, I was working at a joint assignment, where a Navy senior NCO (an E-8) was acting like a royal douche-bag towards an Air Force Captain (O-3) (the Navy guy was training the Air Force guy). The Navy guy was blatantly disrespectful and condescending to the Captain. As an E-6 at the time, I could not say anything, though the unprofessionalism of it outraged me (this guy was always a jerk to everybody). Eventually, our Colonel (O-6) finally heard enough and got involved. They went back in private to talk, then came out and the Navy E-8 apologized to the Captain and the entire crew for his bad behaviour. The affront was done in public, the reprimand was handled in private, but the apology/correction was made in public. This showed that the behaviour was unacceptable, and that everybody present knew where our Colonel stood on the issue.

This is what CMSAF Bass did. Any 'reprimand' was done during the private phone call. But, since the offense was committed in public, the correction needed to be public, as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Micropterus:
Number three, calling the guy out with "call me on Monday, we know who you are" smacks of pettiness. If she knew who he was, it should have been handled quietly. Putting discipline out there for all to see is unprofessional.

She sounds like the quintessential toxic leader.

I also agree with others. You never served, right? I’m not berating you for it, just pointing out the reason for your lack of understanding.

quote:

I also agree with others. You never served, right? I’m not berating you for it, just pointing out the reason for your lack of understanding.

Honestly this has nothing to do with served or not, it's just respect, deference and common sense.

Nobody should expect to ask smart ass, passive aggressive, smarmy or just plain knuckle headed questions of a highly "ranked" person in any organization. Sure woke millennials may think that's ok, but it's not. Especially not in a public forum.

You do that in a law, accounting, engineering firm, etc. and you'll be lucky to just slow your career and may need a box for your shit in short order. Do it at large corporation or small, and should be the same result. Why should this Chief take it any differently?

Just shut up people, or ask the question privately and respectfully.

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
I also agree with others. You never served, right? I’m not berating you for it, just pointing out the reason for your lack of understanding.

It's not a lack of understanding. It's a disagreement. Reasonable people can disagree? Correct?

We don't disagree that what the guy did was wrong.
We don't disagree that some response was in order.
We don't even disagree that a direct conversation between the SSgt and the CSM was appropriate.

What we disagree about is whether or not the good CSM's response in a public forum was excessive. I contend it was. A simple "Call me" would have said everything anyone would have needed to know. Anyone would have known what the implications of that statement would have been. But to come back onto a Facebook page and rehash the story, and call the guy out again by name, violates a core premise of leadership, and that is to keep discipline of a subordinate private.

Public discipline exposes the recipient to the disdain of their peers. Moreover, it subjects them to public ridicule, and the good CSM had a duty to mitigate that within her ability. In some more extreme cases that may be appropriate. In this case, I don't think it was and it certainly did nothing to put the matter to rest. In fact, it exacerbated it. It made it to this forum, didn't it? It wasn't SSgt Bank's comments that drove this to epic proportions, it was the good CSM's public response. She had an opportunity to avoid that with a simpler, succinct, and effective response. Instead, she posted her own meme on it.

And whether or not I served is irrelevant. From what I've read, there are active service members who are on the same page as I.

I think this is a very well reasoned opinion from one of them.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AirFo...spective_leadership/

Disrespect for the chain of command is disrespect, period. Whether it be in private or on a public forum where millions may observe. We see it everyday for the Office of this President of the United States and we don't like it, either.

quote:

Originally posted by Micropterus:
What we disagree about is whether or not the good CSM's response in a public forum was excessive. I contend it was.

Perhaps you missed the part where he was not the only one that had done it? She felt this had to be brought to a halt. To accomplish that the point had to be made publicly and unmistakably.

I've no problem whatsoever with how she handled it.

You guys who are criticizing her are just fucking wrong. In every way. The behavior demonstrated by SSGT Banks is typical for dumbass Americans. He would never do that in public but he feels comfortable doing it from a keyboard. That might be fine for civilians but that should never be acceptable in the military.

I strongly believe in praise in public chastise in private. However, that doesn’t really apply in this situation. A message needed to be sent. It was sent and received. No punishment other than a well deserved humiliation was delivered. I never met the MCPON (I don’t remember the acronym but it’s close) but I do know that if one of our E’s and even some O’s wouldn’t have enjoyed the treatment they got from our squadron MasterChief if they actively acted the fool in front of him.

She has my complete support in how she handled it. Social media can be a cancer and it literally has zero place in today’s military. Yet it does and has to be handled accordingly.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
That might be fine for civilians but that should never be acceptable in the military.

On the contrary, what she did would never fly in any respectable private company. Most companies won't comment at all on disciplinary matters. I've seen executives in the two major corporations I've been part of forced to make company-wide redress for letting private matters slip. Those slip ups were career enders.

As I tried to convince one of my managers after he had a virtual internal gang war inside one of his offices and was trying to sort out who was the real instigator/villain:

Never underestimate the value of a public execution. Just pick one, you'll be better off going forward.

quote:

Originally posted by Micropterus:
On the contrary, what she did would never fly in any respectable private company.

Yeah, well, the U.S. armed forces aren't a private company. They're the military. We were quickly appraised of what that meant the instant we got off the bus in basic training. Those that didn't take that DI's words to heart soon learned the error of their ways.

A good leader will address in private those issues that can adequately, perhaps even best, be served in private. A good leader will never take a subordinate down publicly unless there's a good reason for it. A good leader also knows when a very public hanging is necessary to make the point.

From the description of what was going on, here, the latter was the case.