quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

I've had 4 new Expeditions in a row (2000, 2003, 2005, and 2008) and a 5th one is currently on order. I liked the 2008 so much I still have it as my daily driver. They all have been extremely good vehicles with very very few issues. The only non wear items I've replaced on the 2008 expedition in 103k miles have been 1 starter, 2 $60 (1/2 hour labor) front a/c blower motors, 2 window regulators (driver and passanger), and 1 major repair 2 months ago....the cam phasor sensors which was a $2800 repair at the dealer with everything involved.....but the rest of it amounted to less than $1000 total in repairs in 10.5 years of ownership. Paint still looks very good, truck still drives as tight as new, everything still feels good, a/c still blows ice cold and has never been touched (aside from the blower motors).....and I haven't had the gas pedal get stuck or an airbag blow up in my face!!!!

The Asian vehicles have horrible paint when it comes to longevity compared to US and Euro cars.....and quite frankly they break just as often.

Uh. I'm glad you like your Expedition. The 2018's look great.

However, a starter motor, 2 window regulators, 2 a/c blowers, and a cam phase sensor? In 100k miles?

Sorry dude, that's not the least reliable in my book.

I do a ton of start and stops in my business so a starter motor is understandable. It's not the mileage it's the age.....10 years is a long time for window regulators, they get corrosion in there etc. A/c blower motors are $60 and literally take 1/2 an hour to change...all you do is open the glovebox!!!..but the sum of all repairs for 10 years was less than $1000 total, that's pretty cheap ownership when you consider just what it costs to have someone do a timing belt on a Toyota or Honda and they usually have a/c issues by 10 years and paint issues.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

I've had 4 new Expeditions in a row (2000, 2003, 2005, and 2008) and a 5th one is currently on order. I liked the 2008 so much I still have it as my daily driver. They all have been extremely good vehicles with very very few issues. The only non wear items I've replaced on the 2008 expedition in 103k miles have been 1 starter, 2 $60 (1/2 hour labor) front a/c blower motors, 2 window regulators (driver and passanger), and 1 major repair 2 months ago....the cam phasor sensors which was a $2800 repair at the dealer with everything involved.....but the rest of it amounted to less than $1000 total in repairs in 10.5 years of ownership. Paint still looks very good, truck still drives as tight as new, everything still feels good, a/c still blows ice cold and has never been touched (aside from the blower motors).....and I haven't had the gas pedal get stuck or an airbag blow up in my face!!!!

The Asian vehicles have horrible paint when it comes to longevity compared to US and Euro cars.....and quite frankly they break just as often.

Uh. I'm glad you like your Expedition. The 2018's look great.

However, a starter motor, 2 window regulators, 2 a/c blowers, and a cam phase sensor? In 100k miles?

Sorry dude, that's not the least reliable in my book.

I do a ton of start and stops in my business so a starter motor is understandable. It's not the mileage it's the age.....10 years is a long time for window regulators, they get corrosion in there etc. A/c blower motors are $60 and literally take 1/2 an hour to change...all you do is open the glovebox!!!..but the sum of all repairs for 10 years was less than $1000 total, that's pretty cheap ownership when you consider just what it costs to have someone do a timing belt on a Toyota or Honda and they usually have a/c issues by 10 years and paint issues.

My wifes Corolla has a timing chain with over 100K on the car. Not a problem. My Sienna also has a chain.

I have seen some paint issues with Honda and have owned 3. Never heard of this with Toyota. Even the little Geo cars were a great machine. I remember all the wasted time, multiple engine problems, suspension, electronics and body rot of a Taurus, my friend suffered. Almost daily repairs trying to keep alive that car. In the end he spent enough time and money to nearly buy a better used car. I consider most of the Fords to be less than what that company could give a customer. Those darn Expeditions and Navigators are just a Explorer, waiting to happen. Oh I've seen some parts of the larger Ford vehicles manufactured very strong and never needing replavement. The ratio of good to bad just dont cut it.

I remember the frame rust issues on 3 years of Tacoma trucks. Toyota paid the owners 1.5 times the book value of those trucks to turn them in. Then they addressed the problems.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

I've had 4 new Expeditions in a row (2000, 2003, 2005, and 2008) and a 5th one is currently on order. I liked the 2008 so much I still have it as my daily driver. They all have been extremely good vehicles with very very few issues. The only non wear items I've replaced on the 2008 expedition in 103k miles have been 1 starter, 2 $60 (1/2 hour labor) front a/c blower motors, 2 window regulators (driver and passanger), and 1 major repair 2 months ago....the cam phasor sensors which was a $2800 repair at the dealer with everything involved.....but the rest of it amounted to less than $1000 total in repairs in 10.5 years of ownership. Paint still looks very good, truck still drives as tight as new, everything still feels good, a/c still blows ice cold and has never been touched (aside from the blower motors).....and I haven't had the gas pedal get stuck or an airbag blow up in my face!!!!

The Asian vehicles have horrible paint when it comes to longevity compared to US and Euro cars.....and quite frankly they break just as often.

Uh. I'm glad you like your Expedition. The 2018's look great.

However, a starter motor, 2 window regulators, 2 a/c blowers, and a cam phase sensor? In 100k miles?

Sorry dude, that's not the least reliable in my book.

I do a ton of start and stops in my business so a starter motor is understandable. It's not the mileage it's the age.....10 years is a long time for window regulators, they get corrosion in there etc. A/c blower motors are $60 and literally take 1/2 an hour to change...all you do is open the glovebox!!!..but the sum of all repairs for 10 years was less than $1000 total, that's pretty cheap ownership when you consider just what it costs to have someone do a timing belt on a Toyota or Honda and they usually have a/c issues by 10 years and paint issues.

I have been driving for over 35 years. There have been numerous used cars, a few CPO's, and a few new cars during my driving career. Most have been replaced between 150K - 200K miles, but none prior to 100K. I have NEVER replaced a Window Regulator in any vehicle, EVER! Further, I only know of one incident where anyone known to me (family, friends, or acquaintances) ever had to replace a window regulator. Just Sayin'!

ETA - You're fortunate only need to 'open the glovebox' (TWICE!!) to replace an A/C Blower Motor. On many vehicles (my Volvo included) the entire dashboard need to be removed to replace that part! I've never had to replace one of those either!

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
WELLLLLL, I guess the Expedition sure beats the minivan it replaced! I guess it's a good problem to have that you love the vehicle so much!

Pretty much anything would have beaten the Sienna.

Yeah, I'll bite. You purchased the Sienna for the same purpose, supposedly, to have room for all the little ones. It actually, probably, worked quite well untill, your need for custom, oversize rims and HIDs and the like, changed that. Occurs to me, for all your buying ability, you aint making too good decisions on a major purchase like a rather expensive, fairly new vehicle. Even the awsome Ford, which now wont do was probably in line for some rock crawler suspension and tires, right ? I love reading your posts on the vehicles sir but, there aint no Expedition which is an equal to a Sienna van. Not for their intended use and longevity. As a former Ford owner and Toyota, they have never been equal. I can tell you as a former Ford owner and, knowing other Ford owners of such models as F series, Cargo vans, Taurus, Granada and a few others, those vehicles are broken down money pit junk. Consider a simple Camry or Carolla or All Toyotas for that matter.

I suggest you go back and reread all my posts about the Sienna. It was never about the quality of the van. Toyota makes a fine quality vehicle no doubt there. The issue we had with the Sienna in order of importance was safety and comfort when using 3 car seats.
There is NO possible way to have 3 car seats in the middle row. If you have 2 in the middle row the kid has to climb between the 2 seats in the middle to get to the 3rd row and so do you to help them put on their buckles. Or you have to leave one of the rear seats down and climb through the hatch.
You cannot safely put 2 car seats in the 3rd row, there is only 1 set of latch anchors and it stratles 2 seats forcing you to loose passenger space. Or you could do what I did and use the seatbelts which work their way loose and you are reinstalling them every couple of weeks. I ended up adding ratchet straps to keep the seats secure. Even with 2 seats in the rear it was still a gigantic pain in the ass to climb in the back and buckle and unbuckle everyone in.
Not to mention if you are on a trip and the kid drops his drink, snack, book, toy, etc. there was no getting back to them.

The Expedition has the latch system in all 3 locations in the middle row and fits 3 full size car seats in that row. This is 100% impossible in the Sienna. My wife and I can now reach all 3 kids and buckles from the front seat. Hand them drinks and snacks, grab whatever they drop.
So the Expedition does what we wanted and the Sienna that is not possible.
All 3 kids are under 5 so even the 2 little ones are in full size car seats for another 3 years. Oldest is in a fullsized harnessed booster and will be for at least another year. If not longer, harnessed booster is good till 60 pounds and he is only 40. So a couple more years.

That was our biggest gripe.

2nd was the way it drove. It was not enjoyable to drive it had no soul and I hated driving it and so did the wife. Yes, the enjoyment of driving is very important (to me) we travel to visit family frequently so when I am in the car for hours traveling I want to enjoy it.
A front wheel drive vehicle that nose dives around corners and in twisty back country roads (drive a lot of those) is not enjoyable.

As for poor financial decisions I paid 24k out the door for the van in February of 2017 I traded it in for 18.5k in March of 2018. With the trade in saving me almost $1,1000 in taxes. So essentially got $19,600. $4,400 not much lost over normal depreciation of any vehicle. The small loss is well worth it with as much as I am enjoying the vehicle. Paid 26k for the Expedition and will be paid off in under 3 years. If I get another next year it will be paid fully with cash. So I see no financial issue. If I went out and financed the extra today for a 2nd Expedition. I would give you that argument.

As for the modifications to the van, window tint, weathertech lines, and new lights all get done immediately when I buy a new car and all serve a purpose. Window tint keeps the vehicle so much cooler in the summer, weathertech saves the carpet and detailing time, lights spend lots of time on dark twisty skinny 2 lane country roads so visibility is a must.

I swapped out speakers because the audio was horrible quality and I am a big music guy so I want good quality audio.

I was looking into different wheels to help with handling, wider tires and adjustable coil overs to dial in a better ride. Don’t see an issue.

As for the reliability of Ford well your experience and mine are completely different.
I have had Fords for 20 years now and they have been nothing but dead nuts reliable. I am meticulous with maintenance which likely helps.

First car was a 1992 Ford Mustang (still own) bought in 1998 with 55,000 miles. I learned to drive a stick on it and probably 5 other people at least I taught and of course was a 16 year old kid so I drove it hard and a lot. Only things outside of routine maintenance was a transmission rebuild at 100k (not bad for the abuse it took), starter, and timing belt went at 140k. Non-interference motor so no big deal but also my fault never should have let the belt go that long.
Drove it to 155,000 miles and has been undergoing a very slow going performance makeover from head to toe.

1996 Mustang GT Convertible bought in 2003 with 46k outside of maintenance the stereo amp went out replaced with a used one for $25.
The 96s and 97s utilized an intake with a plastic coolant crossover that would eventually crack. The newer ones had aluminium cross overs to fix that and flowed better. I swapped that out before it cracked and did some bolt on performance mode. Not a lick of issue out of it. Sold it to a forum member in 2009 or 10 maybe wit 85k I think.

2003 Explorer bought in 2006 with 52k miles sold it last year with 156k to a buddy when I bought the van. Only non maintenance issue was a cracked ground wire in the door. Free to fix, blend door actuator went out $27 part and a pain in the ass ripping out the dash, alternator $115, and a bad ABS speed sensor that cost $18. My buddy ended up putting shocks on it. I would not hesitate to drive that thing from DC to California and back.

2002 Ford Mustang bought brand new. Sold in 2014 with 135k. Fuel pump, 1 brake caliper, and shocks was all that was done outside of maintenance.

Also have a 31 Model A that still ticks on the original motor and transmission. Likely have been rebuilt at some point.

All the Fords except that Explorer went 10 years on the original battery. The Explorer went 8.
Same can’t be said for the Toyota’s. Sienna made it just over 3 years and Highlander made it 4. Toyota even has no faith in their batteries as they won’t even warranty them under their CPO program.

The Sienna already had to have the Nav system replaced $2,200 under warranty and was showing the signs of doing the same and was out of warranty. When I took it in they said they don’t even test them anymore the we’re having so many issues.

Both the Sienna and the Highlander are plagued with the crappy intermediate steering shaft that Toyota can’t seem to remedy on numerous models.
Not to say Toyota is bad quality but they aren’t without issues.

To the Lift on the Expedition, if we buy a 2nd and a quality company like Icon or Fox make a true lift and not a simple strut spacer or leveling kit but a true suspension lift with high quality components. Not just slighter better than OEM, Rancho, Skyjacker or some cheap stuff like that then I will lift it. Why, I like tinkering on cars and like to go off-road so fun all around. Not looking for a rock crawler but something to get out on the fireroads in Colorado and the like. Not looking to do Moab with it.

Though my good buddy has a 99 4Runner that has been maticulously cared for and is likely to get something new soon. I have dibs to buy it and that will get the works if I get it. Lift, lockers, sliders, bumpers, snorkel, and so on. Then I’ll just leave the Expedition suspension alone and use it to haul the 4Runner out West for me to Moab and other places.

If Toyota made an extended length Land Cruiser I likely would have one of those. Granted a bit older than a 2016 for financial purposes. But the Land Cruiser and the standard length Expedition did not have enough cargo space with the 3rd row up to accommodate the double BOB running stroller.

So no issue with Toyota quality. Where I messed up is I shopped for a new car when we only had 2 car seats. Had baby 3 on the way, figured I would do the practical family thing and get the van. Turns out with 3 car seats it did not fit our specific needs like I made the presumption it would.
Ohh, well I am out maybe $1,000 but had I bought the Expedition last year instead of the Sienna I likely would have been in the 5.4L Triton model. I am really digging the EcoBoost so am glad it worked out this way.
I bought the XLT with very few options so less to break. There are tons of 150k plus mile EcoBoosta out there. I have 46k miles on this rig I plan on keeping it for 10 years. Did 11k miles in the van last year say I add a few more per year. I am looking at just shy of 200k miles. Dealership I bought from has a Lifetime unlimited mileage power train warranty.
So big ticket stuff is covered with a simple $200 deductible.

So all in all. Pretty good purchase in my book.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Black92LX,

If you have the money, time, and interest, to spend tinkering and playing with your vehicles, I say more power to you.

Life is meant to be enjoyed!

Everything you say is impossible to do with the Sienna I do on a routine basis. Now mine is a 2015. What year was yours? As far as driving, it is very enjoyable to drive. It's not a Corvette, it's a van and handles like one. But it still has a nice ride and handles well for what it is. I sometimes take it up to 90 mph or more (not with the kids inside) and no problem. As a matter of fact I''ll bet it handles just as well as youe Expedition. I wish you luck with your new Expedition but after following your threads on this subject for some time now I don't think you really gave the Sienna a chance. It seems at times as if you were biased against it from day one. But whatever, enjoy your new vehicles.

Ours was a 2014.

There is no possible way to fit 3 full size car seats across the middle row in any Sienna even utilizing the center seatbelt.
No, Sienna has the latch system in all 3 seats in the middle row.
2015 or 2016 they did add a 2nd set of latch anchors in the rear. Though it is still a gigantic pain to get the kids in and out as well as get back there to them.
As for the drive it was a terrible driving car but I hate driving FWD cars. And this is all about ones own perspective and understand that.
The Expedition has a far smoother and comfortable ride than the Sienna did and does not nose dive in the corners. I have driven worse cars but the Sienna was only nice when just driving on the highway. But most of my driving is 2 lane country roads.

I have it a year which was plenty in my mind. I am have made the van handle better with the coil overs but that would have cost me close to 5k by the time I did the coil overs, wheels, and tires.

My Sienna experience has been completely different from yours. What else can I say.

Shoulda kept the Minivan...

Thank you for the lengthy reply Black92. You are a Ford guy and thats how it is. I hope the big truck serves you well. I have the feeling you will take care of it. My Dad had a new F150 every 3 years. Had a '71 Camper Special in mint condition which was a bear. Trucks from a different era. Not much ever went wrong with them. I cant say the same for my F250 3/4 ton 4 wheeler. Several others of mine and a friend and his familys Fords. I want the newer body style Sequoia myself. I bet I could drive it under normal conditions for the balance of my life. Good luck with your Expedition and drive safe.

Wouldn’t mind a Sequoia myself if they made and extended length model.

Walton or Florence got a new Tundra now. Ive seen it once. The Fire Department. I got a ride last month in a large Ford business like van. It belongs to Walton Christian Church. That thing must stand 10 feet, dual rear wheels and glass down its sides tinted black. They take children to different Church events and roller skating. You know, that high top van has the ecoboost and dual rears, it rides better than a Mercedes, accelerates beautifully, even up hills and handles curvey Kentucky roads so comfortable, a cup of coffee would not even lean. I was shocked. Look up Walton Christian Church and you can see the van. Really is a extrordinary riding and handling vehicle.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
WELLLLLL, I guess the Expedition sure beats the minivan it replaced! I guess it's a good problem to have that you love the vehicle so much!

Pretty much anything would have beaten the Sienna.

Yeah, I'll bite. You purchased the Sienna for the same purpose, supposedly, to have room for all the little ones. It actually, probably, worked quite well untill, your need for custom, oversize rims and HIDs and the like, changed that. Occurs to me, for all your buying ability, you aint making too good decisions on a major purchase like a rather expensive, fairly new vehicle. Even the awsome Ford, which now wont do was probably in line for some rock crawler suspension and tires, right ? I love reading your posts on the vehicles sir but, there aint no Expedition which is an equal to a Sienna van. Not for their intended use and longevity. As a former Ford owner and Toyota, they have never been equal. I can tell you as a former Ford owner and, knowing other Ford owners of such models as F series, Cargo vans, Taurus, Granada and a few others, those vehicles are broken down money pit junk. Consider a simple Camry or Carolla or All Toyotas for that matter.

Most of the car issue threads I see on this forum is my Toyota or Honda is having this major issue, what is causing it and what needs to be done to fix it.

I've had 4 new Expeditions in a row (2000, 2003, 2005, and 2008) and a 5th one is currently on order. I liked the 2008 so much I still have it as my daily driver. They all have been extremely good vehicles with very very few issues. The only non wear items I've replaced on the 2008 expedition in 103k miles have been 1 starter, 2 $60 (1/2 hour labor) front a/c blower motors, 2 window regulators (driver and passanger), and 1 major repair 2 months ago....the cam phasor sensors which was a $2800 repair at the dealer with everything involved.....but the rest of it amounted to less than $1000 total in repairs in 10.5 years of ownership. Paint still looks very good, truck still drives as tight as new, everything still feels good, a/c still blows ice cold and has never been touched (aside from the blower motors).....and I haven't had the gas pedal get stuck or an airbag blow up in my face!!!!

The Asian vehicles have horrible paint when it comes to longevity compared to US and Euro cars.....and quite frankly they break just as often.

108k and over 3000 in repairs ?!
You’ve obviously never owned a Honda car or Toyota truck
I have a 2006 Accord with 220k that 2 teenagers have unsuccessful tried to wear out, teenager number 2 just left for school driving it
My 2nd Toyota pickup was a 2004, some guy down the street bought it and had over 300k on it before someone hit it hard enough to total it

I will give Ford credit on the 300 straight six, and 7.3 Powerstroke
Owned both and they are great motors, but they don’t make those old beasts anymore

A friend of mines family owned a Ford/Toyota dealership, guess which one they drive?

quote:

Originally posted by ElKabong:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
WELLLLLL, I guess the Expedition sure beats the minivan it replaced! I guess it's a good problem to have that you love the vehicle so much!

Pretty much anything would have beaten the Sienna.

Yeah, I'll bite. You purchased the Sienna for the same purpose, supposedly, to have room for all the little ones. It actually, probably, worked quite well untill, your need for custom, oversize rims and HIDs and the like, changed that. Occurs to me, for all your buying ability, you aint making too good decisions on a major purchase like a rather expensive, fairly new vehicle. Even the awsome Ford, which now wont do was probably in line for some rock crawler suspension and tires, right ? I love reading your posts on the vehicles sir but, there aint no Expedition which is an equal to a Sienna van. Not for their intended use and longevity. As a former Ford owner and Toyota, they have never been equal. I can tell you as a former Ford owner and, knowing other Ford owners of such models as F series, Cargo vans, Taurus, Granada and a few others, those vehicles are broken down money pit junk. Consider a simple Camry or Carolla or All Toyotas for that matter.

Most of the car issue threads I see on this forum is my Toyota or Honda is having this major issue, what is causing it and what needs to be done to fix it.

I've had 4 new Expeditions in a row (2000, 2003, 2005, and 2008) and a 5th one is currently on order. I liked the 2008 so much I still have it as my daily driver. They all have been extremely good vehicles with very very few issues. The only non wear items I've replaced on the 2008 expedition in 103k miles have been 1 starter, 2 $60 (1/2 hour labor) front a/c blower motors, 2 window regulators (driver and passanger), and 1 major repair 2 months ago....the cam phasor sensors which was a $2800 repair at the dealer with everything involved.....but the rest of it amounted to less than $1000 total in repairs in 10.5 years of ownership. Paint still looks very good, truck still drives as tight as new, everything still feels good, a/c still blows ice cold and has never been touched (aside from the blower motors).....and I haven't had the gas pedal get stuck or an airbag blow up in my face!!!!

The Asian vehicles have horrible paint when it comes to longevity compared to US and Euro cars.....and quite frankly they break just as often.

108k and over 3000 in repairs ?!
You’ve obviously never owned a Honda car or Toyota truck
I have a 2006 Accord with 220k that 2 teenagers have unsuccessful tried to wear out, teenager number 2 just left for school driving it
My 2nd Toyota pickup was a 2004, some guy down the street bought it and had over 300k on it before someone hit it hard enough to total it

I will give Ford credit on the 300 straight six, and 7.3 Powerstroke
Owned both and they are great motors, but they don’t make those old beasts anymore

A friend of mines family owned a Ford/Toyota dealership, guess which one they drive?

All of the manufacturers have issues with their cars. Just different sets of issues. They all break here or there. Parts are more expensive on both the Japanese and Euro brands. The Japanese brands the a/c's and paints generally have issues by the 10 year mark (here in sunny south florida you see major paint issues on 5-10 year old Honda's and Toyotas), Euro brands are plagued with electrical and sensor issues. Nothing is perfect.

In 10.5 years of ownership, I never had a failure that would have left me stranded until 2 months ago with the cam phasors, a known issue with the 5.4. The 5.4 is not known as a great motor (cam phasors and spark plug breaking off when removing them issues). I still drove it the 2 miles to the dealer, but you weren't driving anywhere far with it like that. Ford is known for not having the best window regulators. But all in all, an average of $300 a year in repairs, over 10 years of ownership on a $40k vehicle is pretty good. Routine maintenance is and has been pretty darn cheap compared to foreign cars and their parts overall. The vehicle is still tight and drives like new and everything on the vehicle works as it should.

I've driven lots of foreign rental cars and they don't move me, they just have no soul and drive blah. I drive 20-40 rental cars a year. The Toyota's have little feedback on the steering/brakes etc for example, whereas a ford focus has a sporty feel. The Hyundai's drive better (more fun) than the Toyota's and Honda's I've driven. I have owned expeditions since 1999 because I need the cargo area for my business supplies and tools, so it limits me to a suburban or expediton.

I paid $36k for the vehicle brand new (eddie bauer) and have a set trade in price of $8500, when my new one comes in. 25% of what I paid for it new, almost 11 years ago, on trade in at the dealer at almost 11 years old is pretty damn good.

My mother had a 2003 Explorer with the 6 cylinder. She changed the oil every 30,000-40,000 miles and ran it out of oil 4 times to where it stopped running and I had to go to a parking lot with 3-4 quarts of oil, pour it in, and it would start right up and run. It made it 230k miles till my little brother overheated it and drove it 6 miles with the temperature gauge pegged. Her previous one with the same horrible maintenance (a 1997), went 176k miles till the transmission went bad and she traded it in on the new 2003.

But anyways, I don't want to side track Black's thread anymore.