quote:

Originally posted by amc:
#1 God created us.

I won't say évolution doesn't exist at some level but the idea of man coming from pond scum is crazy.

But mud is OK? Or ribs in the case of women right?
Just not pond scum, that's right out.

quote:

Originally posted by apprentice:

quote:

Originally posted by amc:
#1 God created us.

I won't say évolution doesn't exist at some level but the idea of man coming from pond scum is crazy.

But mud is OK? Or ribs in the case of women right?
Just not pond scum, that's right out.

Biblical imagery not your strength? Don’t worry, you’re not alone. But, there are helpful resources.

https://www.amazon.com/Diction...-Ryken/dp/0830814515

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
#2, while being open to the possibility/likelihood of #1 as a precursor/complement to #2.

As in, the universe may very well be created, designed, and ran by a Creator, but with it also having taking millions of years of evolution, guided by both intelligent design and direct intervention, to get to where we are today.

The ideas aren't mutually exclusive.

I think I’m kind of with Rogue on this. An omnipotent being could create a past, present and future simultaneously and exist across time. I think there is some allusion in the Bible that God knew Adam was going to sin before he did it.

Some men did come into existence from pond scum. In fact, they haven't changed all that much from the pond scum days.

Other men came into existence from a more enlightened supreme being who is perfect with the exception of the one big mistake, failing to clean up the pond scum before the little critters in there had a chance to reproduce.

#1

quote:

Originally posted by zipriderson:

quote:

Originally posted by FHHM213:
If not #1, then who cares?

Scientists. Curious people. Most people. Me.

My neighbor is a scientist, and an atheist. He once knocked on our door, told us he was scheduled for some surgery, wanted us to pray for him. Who would you like us to pray to (as you are an atheist)? "Just covering my bases".

He fully believes in natural evolution. I asked him if, given billions of years of evolution, a jet plane could form itself on our street, fully fueled, and take off? He replied that if the matter and energy are "destined" for such, then yes, it could happen. I asked where "destiny" comes from. He remembered he was late for an appointment.

#1
I believe every word of the Bible.

1

I believe that there is a Divine Creator, an Unmade Maker. I believe in the Trinity.
However I also believe that God could have worked through the process of evolution.
I also believe that my human limitations make it impossible to know the answer(s).

God bless you all, my friends.
[Disclosure: posted on post-procedure narcotics, feeling very mellow and loving.
Thank God he created anesthesiologists and pharmaceutical companies. ]

#2 of course

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by zipriderson:

quote:

Originally posted by FHHM213:
If not #1, then who cares?

Scientists. Curious people. Most people. Me.

My neighbor is a scientist, and an atheist. He once knocked on our door, told us he was scheduled for some surgery, wanted us to pray for him. Who would you like us to pray to (as you are an atheist)? "Just covering my bases".

He fully believes in natural evolution. I asked him if, given billions of years of evolution, a jet plane could form itself on our street, fully fueled, and take off? He replied that if the matter and energy are "destined" for such, then yes, it could happen. I asked where "destiny" comes from. He remembered he was late for an appointment.

Sounds like he has a lot of faith. He just doesn’t know what he has it in.

Do God's ever disagree?
And
If so then what?
And if I believe and follow the word of three God's
Does it give me a better shot
At eternal happiness ?

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:
Do God's ever disagree?
And
If so then what?
And if I believe and follow the word of three God's
Does it give me a better shot
At eternal happiness ?

If you're referring to the Trinity, God is one God in three persons. Christians are monotheists.

quote:

Originally posted by DaveL:

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by zipriderson:
....
Scientists. Curious people. Most people. Me.

My neighbor is a scientist, and an atheist. He once knocked on our door, told us he was scheduled for some surgery, wanted us to pray for him. Who would you like us to pray to (as you are an atheist)? "Just covering my bases".

He fully believes in natural evolution. I asked him if, given billions of years of evolution, a jet plane could form itself on our street, fully fueled, and take off? He replied that if the matter and energy are "destined" for such, then yes, it could happen. I asked where "destiny" comes from. He remembered he was late for an appointment.

Sounds like he has a lot of faith. He just doesn’t know what he has it in.

I think he has full faith and confidence that science is the ultimate god. I did once have a somewhat recognized scientist comment to me "how many things were considered scientific truth 50 years ago that today we laugh at? Roll forward - how many things do we consider scientific truth today that in 50 years we will laugh at"?

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster: I asked him if, given billions of years of evolution, a jet plane could form itself on our street, fully fueled, and take off? He replied that if the matter and energy are "destined" for such, then yes, it could happen. I asked where "destiny" comes from. He remembered he was late for an appointment.

Airplanes are not living creatures, so they can’t evolve. However, the humans needed to build one certainly did and could do so again.

God

quote:

How Did Man Come Into Existence?

Related questions: Did anyone keep the receipt and are we still within the return window?

GOD

7) You're correct. Let's just leave it at that.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster: I asked him if, given billions of years of evolution, a jet plane could form itself on our street, fully fueled, and take off? He replied that if the matter and energy are "destined" for such, then yes, it could happen. I asked where "destiny" comes from. He remembered he was late for an appointment.

Airplanes are not living creatures, so they can’t evolve. However, the humans needed to build one certainly did and could do so again.

That illustration is used to show the problem of randomly creating a complex system. A simple protein is a chain of about 150 amino acids arranged in a specific way. If you arrange it incorrectly it won’t fold into the correct shape and, consequently, it won’t function. It also has to be left handed and formed with peptide bonds. The probability of that happening at random is extremely low. But there is a chance, right? Yes, but you’ve only created a protein. For it to do anything it needs a system for decoding and replicating within which to act - mRNA, ribosomes, etc. so just creating a protein isn’t enough - it needs to happen together with a bunch of other complicated things to work. It’s like randomly creating a software program - certainly possible but useless without a computer to run it. The probability of randomly creating both the software and the computer, at the same time and in the same place, is so high it’s essentially impossible.

You correctly point out that a jet is not a living thing - it’s used to illustrate the point that you can’t use evolution to explain the origin of life because, by definition, there was no living thing for the first living thing to evolve from.

This isn’t a bunch of creationist voodoo. Secular scientists have been wrestling with this problem since not long after DNA was understood. Francis Crick noted it early on and a MIT had a conference about it in 1964. The calculations keep changing because we keep learning more about how complicated cells really are.

Again, I’m not saying this proves scientifically what did or didn’t happen. What it does prove is that the statement “Life randomly emerged from a prebiotic soup” is built on an extraordinary set of assumptions that we can’t even begin to substantiate.