quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
Txjim, I do respect your knowledge.

In reading the exerpt there is obviously a connect to Yamaha and one its subsidiary's building the Mariner to mercury specs. Then yamaha selling it the Mercury. That does not mean it is the same engine as Yamaha was building and marketing as their own. At least in my mind.

It would seem that Mariner was a better motor than Force. But one and two with Merc. being third in motors from that era I would not buy now thinking they would be gtg.

The Yamaha made Mariners and Yamaha branded Yamaha outboards were not sold in the US at the same time. Yamaha was prevented from entering the US market directly by the agreement with Brunswick(Mercury). Yamaha only entered the US market directly after the FTC forced the end of the agreement between the two companies. Once Yamaha entered the US market with its own line of Yamaha branded motors, Mercury was manufacturing and selling the Mariner line right along side the Mercury engines. To say that no Yamaha and Mariner two stroke are the same engine is accurate in that Mariner was no longer made by Yamaha when Yamaha started selling their engines directly to the US market. To say all Merc. and Mariner engines from the mid 90's are junk and to be avoided is simply an out of control brand bias based on anecdotal "facts" spread by word of mouth from other like minded boaters. It's Ford vs. Chevy, which one you think is junk is largely based on the emblem on your own tailgate

And before you throw out the opinion of some marine mechanic, I had one of the best in my shop in the mid 90's and as far as he was concerned if it didn't say Mercury under the cowl it was junk. Yes, the biases run deep when it comes to boats and motors.

I said "Mercury" was the best of the worst three of that era!

1) Force
2) Mariner
3) Mercury

Mercs of the 90's. Were not as bad as those from the 80's. I had a mid 80's 90hp that was a poc.

I do have a bias against those motors from that era because they just were not very good.


I would not consider it even close to a Ford vs Chevy deal.

More like a Ford or Chevy, vs say, a Yugo

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
I said "Mercury" was the best of the worst three of that era!

1) Force
2) Mariner
3) Mercury

Mercs of the 90's. Were not as bad as those from the 80's. I had a mid 80's 90hp that was a poc.

I would not consider it even close to a Ford vs Chevy deal.

More like a Ford or Chevy, vs say, a Yugo

Yep, no bias there

I amended my post before you posted yours. Yes I do!

ORC, If you didn't like Mariner, Mercury or Force, what did you use, a paddle?

Mid 90s OMC truly was junk and the company changed ownership like a pinball machine.

The Yamaha/Mercury connection was for outboards 40hp and smaller as I recall.

Evinrude/Johnson pre omc era. Yamaha was by far the best in the 90's. I have had two 90's vintage 115hp v4 Yamaha's. Both great engines. Then Honda entered the game in the 90's in a big way. The Japanese have dominated with H, Y, Suzuki and now Tohatsu. Since Bomb/Can Am with Evinrude And Mercury making a solid come back the industry is on solid ground.

I am looking for a new 50/60hp now and would buy anyone of them without hesitation. I like the Mercury command thrust a lot from my search. But the Honda or Suzuki looks great too.

But damn, they are expensive

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
So I still have never read or been told by a reliable source that a Mariner in any form was the exact same engine as a Yamaha two stroke.

And both Force and Mariner did have a direct connection to Mercury and are junk I say.

I cannot say for sure, but have been told carburator parts and lower unit parts where Mercury and used by all three.

Yes, most all mariners were made by Yamaha till about 1995 with only a few exceptions. SOME, later Mercury's were also made by Yamaha and rebadged, the 225 HP 4 stroke was made by Yamaha until around 2003, same with the Mercury 90 HP 2 stroke. Regardless a mid 90's Mercury is the same in reliability as OMC's of the same era....they both had good traits, and they both had certain issues depending on HP. Just like the new Yamaha's have certain issues (mid sections that erode the exhaust port and clog up on 200-250's, 350's with multiple serious issues, and weak metallurgy) as well as the new Mercury's having some issues as well (weak L/U's on some).

I do agree on the Yamaha 2 strokes of that era. The 70,90, 150, and 200 HP Yamaha 2 strokes of that era were bulletproof.

OP- if you can do a compression test and all cylinders have good compression (easy even for a DIY'er to do with a $30 gauge from advanced auto parts and a spark plug socket wrench) and you can loosen the drain bolt on the lower unit and let a few drops out to make sure there's no water in the gear lube and the motor turns over I'd buy it in a heart beat. Chances are it's something stupid like he forgot to plug in the kill switch lanyard or something along those lines!!!! Even if you can't do those things, I'd jump on it as you can get a newer running used motor for $3500 or less.

A 1996 bass boat, with a 1996 engine that doesn't run, for $4000? What a DEAL (for the seller)

Seriously, and I'm being serious, that's $1000 boat as it sits.

RUN from this "deal".

I'd look at a modern, fuel injected re-power if I even thought about buying that boat. That will set you back $7500-$10,000 at least.

As to Mercury engines, I have a friend that has a Mercury "tower of power" on his boat. It has ran continuously for like 30 (40?) plus years. Takes it out 15-20 times a year too. Still runs like new. Great engine.

We were poor, and my dad received as a gift an old center console with a Chrysler 75. What a pile of AWESOME! Actually, it was a piece of junk, maintenance nightmare, but it kept us on the water every weekend for 7 or 8 seasons, to include 25 miles offshore (what the hell were we thinking?!)

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:
A 1996 bass boat, with a 1996 engine that doesn't run, for $4000? What a DEAL (for the seller)

Seriously, and I'm being serious, that's $1000 boat as it sits.

RUN from this "deal".

I'd look at a modern, fuel injected re-power if I even thought about buying that boat. That will set you back $7500-$10,000 at least.

As to Mercury engines, I have a friend that has a Mercury "tower of power" on his boat. It has ran continuously for like 30 plus years. Takes it out 15-20 times a year too. Still runs like new. Great engine.

I'm not familiar with Bumblebee. But if it's a pedigree boat that has been garage kept and in very good condition like a 1990's 20' ranger or a storm, the boat and trailer could easily be worth that.

My view on vintage motors that don't run is price them as parts motors (there is a strong market for those) and be done. Pay what the boat/trailer is worth, add the price of a parts motor and that's your offer. If the motor runs with minimal cost you have nothing but upside. If its junk you have no downside. Accept that a repower with anything modern is a serious cash outlay. FWIW>