I have been casually looking at bass boats, waiting for the right deal to come along. I found a boat locally, a 1996 Bumble Bee. I have specifically been looking for this model in this year range. The gentleman was asking a fair price. He sent me pics and video of the boat and motor. Said it ran as good as it looked. He is selling because he is moving out of state. Last night he called and told me that he attempted to start the motor and it will crank, but wont fire. He said the plugs have spark and the fuel pump seems to be working, but fuel is not getting to the plugs. He's leaving on Sunday and doesn't have time to mess with it. He cut the price in half and said its mine if i want it. The motor is a 1996 Mariner 150 Magnum EFI. I wouldn't be able to get it to a mechanic prior to purchase because I would see it saturday night, and he leaves Sunday. Would you gamble on this?

He is making a price adjustment. Settled on a drop from $7500 to $4000

quote:

Originally posted by lopezp:
He is making a price adjustment. Settled on a drop from $7500 to $4000

Sorry, I missed that in my original response.

Is the boat worth the price he cut it to without the motor? If not, I'd walk away. I'm also at a point in my life where I don't need another project.

I'd buy it and take it to Jolly Roger Marina in Clewiston. Ask for Brett. Big Merc outboards are their claim to fame and I've done business with JRM for over 30 years with no disappointments.

http://www.jollyrogermarina.com/service.htm

If you thought it was a fair price at $7,500 you should be ok. I don't see it costing $3,500 to get that motor running.

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
If you thought it was a fair price at $7,500 you should be ok. I don't see it costing $3,500 to get that motor running.

What he said. If it was worth $7500 running, you could probably be back at that price even if you had to replace it with a comparable used outboard, assuming you can do the work. Most likely what's on it can be repaired for less.

Force motors are junk. If you buy it plan on a repower which is incredibly expensive.

The Mariner and Force outboards are the worst of the worst. While I like the new Mercury line up of outboards. Even their eighties and ninties motors were not very good. The M&F motors both had ties to Mercs I am pretty sure.
If you buy it, do so for the boat, trailer and accs. Not the motor. Maybe offer him $2500 and tell him based on your experience you will have to upgrade the motor.
But even then to find a good used 150 yamaha or etec you will easily be looking at $7500, New, twice that
Maybe just tell him you will take it off his hands and not charge him anything

What's your read on the guy? Do you think he's being up front? When was the last time the motor was running?

I have an old mariner 89 60 hp and thing has run like a top since I’ve owned it, so I don’t know about them being junk as stated above? Maybe I’m luck and all my care over the years just played out for the best

The newer EFI models I’m not as familiar with and usually let a mechanic handle those issues. While it’s apart I’d replace or at least check the water pump impeller while you are at it if it’s been sitting for a few seasons. If he cut the price in half, sounds like a good deal don’t think you need a new motor but maybe some TLC.

Some advice as a boat owner, the two best days of owning a boat are the day you buy it and the day you sell it, it’s just a hole in the water you throw money at

Damn ORC, we've got to disagree. Mariner is a grey Mercury and the mid 90s efi is a desirable motor to this day. Parts are interchangeable. Force is a whole different animal and is in no way related to the big V6 EFI Mercs.

This was my Lake Okeechobee rig in the late 80s - mid 90s. Kevlar hull Hydro-Sport w/150 V6 Mariner. When I bought parts they were Mercury.

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
Force motors are junk. If you buy it plan on a repower which is incredibly expensive.

The Mariner and Force outboards are the worst of the worst. While I like the new Mercury line up of outboards. Even their eighties and ninties motors were not very good. The M&F motors both had ties to Mercs I am pretty sure.
If you buy it, do so for the boat, trailer and accs. Not the motor. Maybe offer him $2500 and tell him based on your experience you will have to upgrade the motor.
But even then to find a good used 150 yamaha or etec you will easily be looking at $7500, New, twice that
Maybe just tell him you will take it off his hands and not charge him anything

This is completely inaccurate information. The early Mariners were made by Yamaha until the early 90's. From at least '95 on the Mariner line of engines are identical to the Mercury motors of the same HP. That '96 Mariner is no different than a '96 Mercury except the paint and stickers.

Force was a different story, these were basically the old Chrysler outboards with updated ignitions/electronics and would agree that they are definitely a step down from Merc./Mariner.

You maybe more of an expert than I am TX. But the boating community I know put Force and Marider in the same category and would not own either. I doubt the Mariner reference to yamaha is correct either. If yamaha was connected to them I am guessing it was for their power head which they also built for many Merc. outboards. See the connection?

I would not buy a boat with any of those three on it unless I was buying for the hull, trailer or other associated items.

If lopezp does his research it will become very apparent that he should not buy this package banking on a Force outboard to power it long term in my humble opinion.

I recently visited a shop near me who has a mechanic I highly respect. I recently bought an older boat for the hull and trailer and accs. with an eighties Merc. on it. We were discussing it and nearby was a pallet with old Merc, Force and Mariner pieces. We looked at either other and he commented, "there you have it". And I could not agree more and I have decades of experience with boats and outboards.

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
You maybe more of an expert than I am TX. But the boating community I know put Force and Marider in the same category and would not own either. I doubt the Mariner reference to yamaha is correct either. If yamaha was connected to them I am guessing it was for their power head which they also built for many Merc. outboards. See the connection?

I would not buy a boat with any of those three on it unless I was buying for the hull, trailer or other associated items.

If lopezp does his research it will become very apparent that he should not buy this package banking on a Force outboard to power it long term in my humble opinion.

I recently visited a shop near me who has a mechanic I highly respect. I recently bought an older boat for the hull and trailer and accs. with an eighties Merc. on it. We were discussing it and nearby was a pallet with old Merc, Force and Mariner pieces. We looked at either other and he commented, "there you have it". And I could not agree more and I have decades of experience with boats and outboards.

Mariner and Force engines have nothing in common other than being sold by Mercury Marine.


I was part owner and GM of a boat dealership through the late 90's that was an authorized Mercury sales and service shop. I can assure you that a '96 Merc and a '96 Mariner are the same engine. Force is a different animal, at that time sold as a "value line" of carbureted engines.

Mariner outboards were 100% built by Yamaha in Japan until 1989 as part of their partnership. There was some hybridization between the Yamaha/Merc Mariners from 1989 until 1994. Post 1994 the Mariner line is simply a Merc with different paint/stickers. In the early 2000s Yamaha built some Merc/Mariner 4 strokes.

Having spent a lot of time "in the boating community" I will say this isn't the only factually inaccurate bias floating around. Boat owners in general, and bass boat owners in particular, are some of the most passionate brand loyal people on the planet and will accept negative "information" about non-prefered brands as gospel in my experience. YMMV.

Selling emergency sounds the scam alarm for me.

So txj, when was the mariner first introduced an fully built by Yamaha from when to 1989?
Who was mariner. Who started and owned it?

None the less. Owning a force, mariner or merc from that era is asking for problems.

Beware if that motor lopezp.

Btw, not much of a bass guy

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
So txj, when was the mariner first introduced an fully built by Yamaha from when to 1989?
Who was mariner. Who started and owned it?

None the less. Owning a force, mariner or merc from that era is asking for problems.

Beware if that motor lips9

Here is an overview of the when, who and how of Mariner/Yamaha. The relationship was eventually squashed by the Federal Trade Commission to promote competiton and allow Yamaha to manufacture and sell its own line of engines into the US market.


The following is from "The Legend of Mercury" by Jeffrey L. Rodengen (1998), starting at page 158:

In 1972 (a year that proved extraordinarily busy for Mercury), Brunswick bought a minority interest in Yamaha manufacturing. The plan was to diversity distribution in the United States by adding another brand of outboard engine to cover the market. At the time, Mercury and OMC (with Johnson and Evinrude products) each maintained about 30 percent of the market. The second-brand strategy was meant to give Mercury a second bite of the same apple, even though Mariner would in effect be competing against Mercury engines.

According to the terms of the agreement, Mercury provided Yamaha with second-generation blueprints and taught the japanese manufacturer how to build quality engines, including methods to reduce corrosion (and other metallurgical technology). Under the joint venture, Yamaha and Brunswick owned equal shares in a Yamaha subsidiary, Sanshin Kogyo Company, manufacturer of outboard motors. The subsidiary sold all its outboards to Yamaha, which in turn sold the motors to Brunswick, which then marketed the motors under the Mariner name. For Brunswick, the new outboard was called Mariner to offer, according to Reichert, "an image different than that of the high performance image of Mercury, using the idea of the "ancient mariner" of reliability and durability.

. . . . .

. . . . .

The U.S. Federal Trade Commission eventually ruled that the agreement hindered competition, ordering Brunswick to sell its shares to Yamaha to allow the Japanese Company a foothold in the U.S. market. By 1982, Mercury had become the second largest seller of outboards in the United States, prompting the FTC to rule that as a North American competitor, Yamaha (prohibited from selling under its own name under the terms of the agreement) would increase competition and drive down prices.

So I still have never read or been told by a reliable source that a Mariner in any form was the exact same engine as a Yamaha two stroke.

And both Force and Mariner did have a direct connection to Mercury and are junk I say.

I cannot say for sure, but have been told carburator parts and lower unit parts where Mercury and used by all three.

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
So I still have never read or been told by a reliable source that a Mariner in any form was the exact same engine as a Yamaha two stroke.

And both Force and Mariner did have a direct connection to Mercury and are junk I say.

I cannot say for sure, but have been told carburator parts and lower unit parts where Mercury and used by all three.

I am clearly not a reliable source I suppose

OP, I would go with water ORC says, he seems to know best

While not a "big" outboard, I have a late 80s 25 horse Mariner and it is certainly a Yamaha powerhead as it's cast with the Yami tuning fork emblem. Nice little motor.

Txjim, I do respect your knowledge.

In reading the exerpt there is obviously a connect to Yamaha and one its subsidiary's building the Mariner to mercury specs. Then yamaha selling it the Mercury. That does not mean it is the same engine as Yamaha was building and marketing as their own. At least in my mind.

It would seem that Mariner was a better motor than Force. But one and two with Merc. being third in motors from that era I would not buy now thinking they would be gtg.