SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge BATFE reversal of reversal of Open Letter on Shouldering SIG-style Brace
Main Page The Lounge BATFE reversal of reversal of Open Letter on Shouldering SIG-style BraceGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
Step by step walk the thousand mile road |
Around and 'round and 'round like a bloody merry go round. Note: no copy of the BATFE reversal was provided by SB Tactical.
If this is in the wrong subforum, please move it. Nice is overrated "It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government." Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018 | ||
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Oriental Redneck |
Safe for at least the next 4 years, eh? Q | |||
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| Gracie Allen is my personal savior! |
"[I]ncidental, sporadic and situational 'use'" - I get what incidental and sporadic mean, but what exactly are they saying is a "situational" use? What would constitute sufficient evidence to prove that someone always used the brace as a shoulder stock and had therefore magically turned the pistol into an SBR? | |||
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| Step by step walk the thousand mile road |
I have no idea. Nice is overrated "It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government." Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018 | |||
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| Do the next right thing  |
Maybe it's time for an AR pistol after all. | |||
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Member |
Add ATF to the list of government agencies that need to be disolved. wankers the lot of them! ______________________________________________ Life is short. It’s shorter with the wrong gun… | |||
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| JOIN, or DIE |
There was a time when I wasn't sure about how I felt about when people would call for the ATF to be disbanded. Extreme I thought. As time has gone by and I have learned more, my feeling have changed. Disband them. This pistol brace touching your shoulder crap is just one thing in a long line of things they have gotten wrong. It actually disgusts me seeing videos of grown men on youtube shooting with the damn thing on their cheek and other places, succumbing to the fear of the ATF coming to snatch them up if the brace touched their shoulder. The fast and furious scandal that nobody was held accountable for, the politicization of the bureau under Obama, the shoulder brace thing, the opinion letters (brace, suppressor wipe), etc. Cut their funding. On top of that, the "white paper" that comes out recently where they even say that the laws on SBR's and suppressors are basically bullshit. Edit to add....on top of the insanely long NFA approval times. They should be ashamed of themselves. | |||
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| That rug really tied the room together.  |
You got it. Seems like some good things coming out of the ATF under this administration, if you can believe it. ______________________________________________________ Often times a very small man can cast a very large shadow | |||
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Hot Fuzz |
So, if I'm reading this right, your AR pistol with a brace is still a pistol no matter how you might hold it, as long as you've never altered the brace itself. Or, more simply, "we can't tell you how to hold your pistol." Hater of fun since 2001! | |||
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| Administrator |
No one can say until there's an actual case that gets tried with relevant facts in play. I've always been surprised at BATFE's willingness to issue this kind of opinion letter. Courts generally will not issue an advisory opinion (giving an opinion on a rule/statute w/o an actual case), not sure what makes agencies so willing to when courts will not. For those of you calling for the disbanding of BATFE, that will only work if the culture you so disapprove of is not transmitted to another agency. The laws regarding NFA, etc will still have affect, and therefore require an agency (no matter what its name is) to enforce them. And it's likely with the way that gov't works, the same GS-XX that issued BATFE FTB's opinions that you don't like will simply get absorbed into whatever new agency/existing agency is tasked with enforcing the NFA. Same actors, new costumes. | |||
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Get Off My Lawn |
Here is the actual letter from DOJ/BATFE (PDF) https://www.thetruthaboutguns....er-Final-3.21.17.pdf With the punchline in the document:
"I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965 | |||
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Member |
Excellent. Now when will Geiselle release an SSA trigger they approve for the MPX  . I like my SB tactical collapsing brace.“Forigive your enemy, but remember the bastard’s name.” -Scottish proverb | |||
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E tan e epi tas |
Honestly most of these laws are either meant to be a nuisance to the law abiding or a tack on charge to a criminal. Hell my thoughts are that it should all be perfectly legal unless you are committing a crime. Would any of us scoff if SBR/SBS/Suppressors were perfectly legal......unless used in a crime and then they would be used as additional charges/negotiating. My point is there is a middle ground so to speak. Allow the law abiding what they want but the minute said item is used in a REAL crime start tacking charges on. "Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man." | |||
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| Gracie Allen is my personal savior! |
From the letter, it almost sounds as if they're saying you can use an arm brace any way you want as long as you don't physically modify it in a way that (1) it is less effective as an arm brace or (2) it is more effective as a shoulder stock. Of course that takes us right back around the merry-go-round - the letter only says its OK if the use is "incidental, sporadic or situational". Ugh. I'm going to bed. | |||
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| E tan e epi tas |
Again this is all so stupid. Make SBR/SBS/Suppressors legal. They are not in any way more or less dangerous then any other firearm. One could argue that full auto, without training, especially with tiny full autos such as mini uzis do add a level of additional danger to an untrained shooter and or bystanders no matter how thin the argument. The same cannot be said for SBS/SBR/Supressors. Make them all legal and just make there use in a crime extra onerous. "Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man." | |||
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| Big Stack |
Let's separate the henchmen from the villains here. The bureaucrats at the ATF play the cards that Congress has dealt them. The could be much more of a problem than they are. For instance, the could have easily (from a legal standpoint), banned the SIG brace, and equivalents. The didn't. But they have to follow the NFA. So the can't do anything will supressors unless Congress changes the law. | |||
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The Once and Future SIG Shooter |
To clarify my position on the BATFE and their reversal of their initial reversal of their original position: I may or may not have ever given a shit to begin with  | |||
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| Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock  |
Ok, so the way I read the letter and the statement on "affix to the buffer tube", I'm getting the same thing. Buy the brace, leave it alone and your good-to-go for "occasional/sporadic" use in whatever way you see fit. So, that brings up the Odin Works "stop thing" which makes the brace be more-or-less like a stock. Or the Phase 5 (?) tube that has the wide part that stops the brace from moving. Or the tube that has the divots in it for the Blade brace to lock in to. I'd seriously question those types of "gadgets". Buy the brace, install it, use it how you like, just don't "modify" it. That's how I read it...  James ---------------------------- "Voldemorte himself created his worst enemy, just as tyrants everywhere do! Have you any idea how much tyrants fear the people they oppress? All of them realize that, one day, amongst their many victims, there is sure to be one who rises against them and strikes back!" Book 6 - Ch 23 | |||
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Alienator |
You know what? I will continue using it as I see fit. A small benefit of having your own range. SIG556 Classic P220 Carry SAS Gen 2 SAO SP2022 9mm German Triple Serial P938 SAS P365 FDE Psalm 118:24 "This is the day which the Lord hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it" | |||
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| Music's over turn out the lights  |
Bingo, that's how I feel. David W. Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud. -Sophocles | |||
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SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge BATFE reversal of reversal of Open Letter on Shouldering SIG-style Brace
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