Many years before Murray's work, 1956 Nobel winner in physics William Shockley claimed blacks had lower iq's. Of course he took a ton of heat. I won't bother to link info to him, check him out if interested.

The one point I remember him making, more specific to American blacks, was that the lowest among them produced the most offspring, skewing numbers. So his isn't necessarily a wholesale indictment and invites further scrutiny. No one will do that.

Keep up in mind culture plays a major role in this. As was mentioned Asians as a group, value education and testing. The other races? What is valued in their culture? How many books do you find in their homes? Generally, the more books and the more reading, the better kids do in school. When I was teaching the number of students that did not read was astounding. "It makes my eyes hurt" was common. There have been studies about the acquisition of vocabulary. It shows success in school is related to ones language.
Last, all IQ tests have a cultural bias. No doubt the science experiment used a pretty generic test to get an IQ. The real world requires multiple tests to get a good measure of IQ.

I came across an article recently (don't know if it hit the forum) indicating that math is racist, math is taught from a white male perspective, which is the reason many minorities don't do well in math on standardized tests.

This garbage is not even theory at our house. Our adopted from China 17 year old high school senior is applying for colleges, the unofficial messages from the UC schools is we don't need any more straight A chinese girls. But she will be ok whoever she ends up. The idea that for political correctness we deny the obvious only hurts those that could be helped. If we could actually study it maby we could find out some ways to help correct it. However we all ready know why some groups underpreform. Although racism is real and damaging (and a 2 way street) the problem is cultural.

quote:

Originally posted by hunter62:
I went to an almost entirely white Catholic private school. The only two Asians in my class both got perfect SAT scores. They were the only ones to do so in my class. Were they the smartest? Not sure, but they worked harder for it than anyone else.

I wonder if Asian kids literally attack other Asian kids who make an effort in school and get great grades.

No I don't. But, I know there are some cultures that do.

quote:

In a Thursday email to parents, the school’s principal Peter Lambert said they were taking the “incident very seriously” and noted that the school strived to “promote and embrace an inclusive environment and way of thinking which excludes any form of discrimination.”

Discrimination? Why, it certainly seems this student was inclusive of all races in his study. I don't see that he left any out. So, where's the discimination?

quote:

African Americans received a “bonus” of 230 points, Lee says.

She points to the second column.

“Hispanics received a bonus of 185 points.”

The last column draws gasps.

Asian Americans, Lee says, are penalized by 50 points — in other words, they had to do that much better to win admission.

So these colleges would rather take in future criminals than over achievers. Why do I have a feeling the democraps have a hand in this.

quote:

Originally posted by stoic-one:

quote:

After complaints from students, parents and faculty, the project was removed from the science fair on Wednesday, the outlet said, and the district is currently investigating the incident, Alex Barrios, said the spokesman for Sacramento Unified district.

What "incident"? You mean the presentation of facts that don't fit their opinions?

Indeed! Been the operating principle of the semi-literate left in this country for a couple decades.

If you don't like the facts, change them until they fit your agenda.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott in NCal:
the unofficial messages from the UC schools is we don't need any more straight A chinese girls.

WTF?

The only way to get rid of discrimination, reverse discrimination, any / all types of discrimination, would be to remove all racial, ethnic, gender, identification from applications.

Let each application be identified by a serial number only, not even a name. Use this totally anonymous information to pick the best applicants, then when the decision has been made, the serial number of the application can be connected to the actual applicant.

Only by doing something like this, can we insure that the most qualified people are chosen, using unbiased criteria.

quote:

Last, all IQ tests have a cultural bias. No doubt the science experiment used a pretty generic test to get an IQ. The real world requires multiple tests to get a good measure of IQ.

That may have been true 40-50 years ago, but since the advent of liberal-fascism in academia they have been bending waaaay over backwards to try to find SOME test that is not "culturally biased" (i.e: that everyone ends up scoring about the same on).
They simply can't do it. The unfortunate truth is that some races always do better and some always do worse on anything that can reasonably be called "intelligence"..."reasoning ability"..."Abstract thought capacity", etc, etc, etc.
Even when they at first agree on some test that seems like it SHOULD be culturally neutral, when the results come in then they search desperately for a reason that it MUST have been culturally-biased, but our own prejudices "blinded" us to the bias.

Of course the results of such studies are always suppressed.

Called it like they saw it

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott in NCal:
the unofficial messages from the UC schools is we don't need any more straight A chinese girls.

WTF?

The only way to get rid of discrimination, reverse discrimination, any / all types of discrimination, would be to remove all racial, ethnic, gender, identification from applications.

Let each application be identified by a serial number only, not even a name. Use this totally anonymous information to pick the best applicants, then when the decision has been made, the serial number of the application can be connected to the actual applicant.

Only by doing something like this, can we insure that the most qualified people are chosen, using unbiased criteria.

I have been saying this for years. Job applications too. That would take care of any nepotism in the process as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:
I came across an article recently (don't know if it hit the forum) indicating that math is racist, math is taught from a white male perspective, which is the reason many minorities don't do well in math on standardized tests.

My daughter, the mechanical engineering student, might be white but her math skills far exceed my own.
I would much rather have those who do well in math design/engineer stuff than those who are picked based on their race.

quote:

The only way to get rid of discrimination, reverse discrimination, any / all types of discrimination, would be to remove all racial, ethnic, gender, identification from applications.

Well..., Yes!

In 2,000 J. Philippe Rushton wrote a little book called "Race, Evolution and Behavior: A llife History Perspective". Came to the same conclusions and is an interesting read.

Facts just don't change.

I didn't think this was going to end well for the student


A California high school is investigating a student who attempted to connect IQs and their link to race, according to a Monday report.

C.K. McClatchy High School in Sacramento, Calif. is investigating an unnamed student for a science project in which he tested the IQ for teenagers of various races, postulating that test results explained the representation of different races in a high-caliber magnet program, reported the Los Angeles Times.

The student exhibited his project earlier in February, but the school took it down after two days.

“Yes, we’ll respect freedom of speech. But we will also uphold our duty to limit speech that is likely to cause disruption to our students,” said Jorge Aguilar, superintendent of Sacramento City Unified School District, according to LA Times. “No student should ever be made to feel that their race has anything to do with their ability to succeed.”

http://dailycaller.com/2018/02...-race-investigation/

quote:

“Yes, we’ll respect freedom of speech. But we will also uphold our duty to limit speech that is likely to cause disruption to our students”

Translation- “We will make a desultory effort to pretend to honor freedom of speech, but will happily trump it with political correctness aimed at trying to mollify the dummies”.

The kid & family better get good civil rights lawyer!

quote:

Originally posted by olfuzzy:
I didn't think this was going to end well for the student


A California high school is investigating a student who attempted to connect IQs and their link to race, according to a Monday report.

C.K. McClatchy High School in Sacramento, Calif. is investigating an unnamed student for a science project in which he tested the IQ for teenagers of various races, postulating that test results explained the representation of different races in a high-caliber magnet program, reported the Los Angeles Times.

The student exhibited his project earlier in February, but the school took it down after two days.

“Yes, we’ll respect freedom of speech. But we will also uphold our duty to limit speech that is likely to cause disruption to our students,” said Jorge Aguilar, superintendent of Sacramento City Unified School District, according to LA Times. “No student should ever be made to feel that their race has anything to do with their ability to succeed.”

http://dailycaller.com/2018/02...-race-investigation/

quote:

Originally posted by olfuzzy:
I didn't think this was going to end well for the student


A California high school is investigating a student who attempted to connect IQs and their link to race, according to a Monday report.

C.K. McClatchy High School in Sacramento, Calif. is investigating an unnamed student for a science project in which he tested the IQ for teenagers of various races, postulating that test results explained the representation of different races in a high-caliber magnet program, reported the Los Angeles Times.

The student exhibited his project earlier in February, but the school took it down after two days.

“Yes, we’ll respect freedom of speech. But we will also uphold our duty to limit speech that is likely to cause disruption to our students,” said Jorge Aguilar, superintendent of Sacramento City Unified School District, according to LA Times. “No student should ever be made to feel that their race has anything to do with their ability to succeed.”

http://dailycaller.com/2018/02...-race-investigation/

Race doesn’t have anything to do with an individuals ability to succeed. That is always based on individual effort, responsibility, discipline, ambition, etc. You have to do the best you can with what you’ve got.

Generalizations about groups seldom apply to individuals with any accuracy. Except Irish and Italians, of course.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
The only way to get rid of discrimination, reverse discrimination, any / all types of discrimination, would be to remove all racial, ethnic, gender, identification from applications.

Let each application be identified by a serial number only, not even a name. Use this totally anonymous information to pick the best applicants, then when the decision has been made, the serial number of the application can be connected to the actual applicant.

Only by doing something like this, can we insure that the most qualified people are chosen, using unbiased criteria.

Yes, well, that would work if the goal was to remove racial/ethnic/gender/whatever bias from job or school applications, but it's not. The goal is to promote equal outcomes, regardless of ability.

I don't know what became of this particular brouhaha, but there was a news item a number of years ago about a symphony orchestra that was getting criticized for "lack of diversity" in its hiring practices. How was hiring done? Applicants were required to play a selection of pieces from behind a screen that made it impossible for the listening judges to know who was playing. The judges voted based strictly on what their ears told them.

Can't get any more non-discriminatory than that.

Nope. Wasn't good enough. What made it a news story was the orchestra was resisting demands they "pre-load" the scores for PoC and women, and boy were they ever catching flak for it.

I think hearing that story was the point at which I lost what little remaining respect I'd had for the equality/diversity/what-have-you movement.

I'll just leave this right here....

Harrison Bergeron