Here's the deal in Virginia. I've been handling claims in Virginia for 30 years.

1) An attorney is not going to take a property damage only claim. And most won't handle the property damage portion of your claim even if they take the bodily injury portion.

2) Your insurance company will not fight for you. They aren't paid to fight for you. And they can't fight for you. Only your legal representative can fight for you in Virginia. They aren't your legal representative, and can't be. You make a choice and make your claim with their insurance company or their insurance company. Make a choice. The only time your insurer will "go after" the other insurer is if your insurer pays something the other insurer owes. Your insurer will "subrogate" for reimbursement. As a courtesy, they will also ask back your out of pocket expenses, like the deductible. But they won't ask for damages back that you paid out of pocket for unreasonable expenses, like the difference between the costs of aftermarket and OEM parts.

3) You aren't legally owed new OEM parts. The other driver didn't damage new OEM parts. He damaged 2 year old OEM parts with 19,000 miles on them. If you want OEM parts, you can demand used OEM parts in a similar condition. If those aren't available, the other insurer still does not owe you new OEM part. Like kind and quality (LKQ) after-market parts are what they owe you, and appears what has been offered. You can fight it in court on your own if you want, but you will likely lose. Courts in Virginia have decided time and again that the use of LKQ parts are reasonable and acceptable alternatives to OEM. You're entitled to have your car repaired any way you want, including using new OEM parts. But the other driver is not legally liable for new OEM parts. You'll have to pay the difference.

Heres' some good news:

1) Once your repairs are complete, you can make a Diminution In Value (DIV) claim. That is a claim for the loss of value your vehicle had as a result of the accident, and as a result of being repaired.

You'll need a valuation with three things:

A) The 3rd party retail valaue of the car prior to the loss.
B) The value of the vehicle in the damaged, or unrepaired condition.
C) The 3rd party retail values of the car in its repaired condition.

In Virginia, you must have all three. And you will need to get the valuations from a certified vehicle appraiser. If you go to Carmax for a quote, the insurer and the courts will reject it. Carmax and dealers will quote you the lowest trade in value they possibly can, and courts will reject these out of hand. Get a certified appraiser.

2) You may be able to finagle new OEM parts if used OEM parts aren't available, and the LQK parts don't fit. That's rare, but sometimes it happens. LQK parts used by insurers are CAPA certified and are in many cases batter than the OEM parts.

Good luck. Keep your expectations reasonable.

I’ve never hade them deny me OEM parts when I demanded it when the other person was at fault.

Never.

All,

Thank you all very much for the information. To say it's been an education would be an understatement. Once again, to hear from people who have been through this, including from people who actually handle these claims is incredibly useful. From all these responses, I have the following conclusions and observations:

1) It sounds like threatening to go to an attorney is an idle threat, as these claims are too small to attract an attorney's interest. So this is not likely to be a useful negotiating tactic.

2) I am convinced I am making the right decision about using only OEM parts - and I intend to continue doing this. I do not know, and am beginning to highly doubt that I'll be able to get any insurance company - my own or the other party's to pay fully for this.

3) Most believe I am making a mistake by not going through my own insurance company. Great points made here, and I may well go this route, but I am still uncertain. For one thing, I read through my policy and there is nothing about using OEM or 3rd party parts. I suspect my own insurance company would not pay for OEM parts. Plus, I also have a $1,000 deductible, and there is no guarantee my own insurance company could recoup this.

4) The wife still is experiencing no effects after the accident. She sees going to the doctor as a waste of time as she has no symptoms. We understand this might give us leverage over the damage claim, but wife will not play these games if she isn't experiencing anything wrong. Believe me, she would definitely go to the doctor if she was experiencing any effects. Plus, the insurance company we are dealing with stated we have up to two years to report health issues.

Here's the way things stand right now:

1) We have received the estimates from both the body shop and the insurance company, they're nearly $10K apart.

2) The body shop has already ordered parts and has begun work on fixing the damage.

3) The body shop says they will work to get as much out of the insurance company as possible. We already told them we would cover whatever insurance does not to guarantee use of OEM parts.

4) I have not spoken to the insurance company since they sent us their estimate.

I do not know if this makes a difference, but there are THREE 3rd parties besides the body shop that need to be involved in fixing the vehicle:
a) The body shop has to mess up the spray-in bed liner as they apparently need to remove the bed. They have included an estimate for a 3rd party to remove and re-apply the spray-in bed liner.

b) The bumper is significantly damaged. The bumper has lots of sensors in it that must be replaced and re-calibrated. Only the Toyota dealer can do the re-calibration.

c) I had a ceramic coating applied to all finished parts - this cost $1600 for the whole vehicle. The ceramic coating will need to be re-applied by the same vendor on the new parts. I actually DID have this as a rider on my own insurance policy, but the other insurance company has acknowledged this needs to be done.

At this point, I think it's up to the body shop to see what they can get out of the insurance company. I plan to have no further discussion with the insurance company until the body shop has stated they have done everything they can. Then I will make a decision whether to involve my own insurance company.

Incidentally, the wife is an incredibly effective negotiator. She has dealt with this sort of situation before, has been on witness stands, and has had to defend and negotiate positions under a lot of pressure. She is great at this, and I generally let her handle these sorts of things.

I will report back what happens in case others want to know what finally happens.

Id fight for the parts

otherwise your insurance carrier should discount your policy since you no longer drive a factory vehicle - its been bastardized

when I had my collision a few years ago I made sure I got factory parts installed by the repair center - and it was about $15 grand in parts and body panels

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
Id fight for the parts

...

when I had my collision a few years ago I made sure I got factory parts installed by the repair center - and it was about $15 grand in parts and body panels

nhtagmember,
I am definitely going to fight hard for this - but it is going to be a real uphill battle, I'm afraid as I have no real leverage. Threatening to sue is an idle threat which has been pointed out by others. Reporting to the insurance commission is as well, since I don't think the insurance company is being illegal or immoral - they are just cheap.

The other thing - the body shop has removed some parts, and both the body shop and the other insurance company adjuster has seen the complete extent of the damage - there is no frame damage (thank goodness). My insurance company could legitimately claim that they did not have an opportunity to view the damage before repair began. Unless the body shop's and my wife's negotiation skills win out, this may end up an expensive lesson.

Call your carrier, and have them handle the claim, the other carrier will have to pay them back, let your insurance company foot the bill on the legal costs.

No lawyer will take on a property damage claim anymore, return is too small. You need a PI claim to get them interested.

File Diminished Value suit in local court against that carrier, it's a loss of value claim, since it's a 2019, unwrecked it has a value, after they BS and insurance report the VIN to Carfax that vehicles value will drop like a rock.

Today's auction houses and dealers are using carfax and other services as well as training and new tech to determine Used car trade in values. Since they have been burned on bad trades with no reported wreck history, then get shafted on resale at auction since the Auction houses are looking really tight at vehicles for condition. So this truck will get adjusted down at Trade in because of the wreck.

You have read all the posts and are ignoring some very good advice.
You are a Lamb to the slaughter.

If the other carrier has already accepted liability then your insurance carrier may waive your deductible once they talk to the other rep. It can't hurt to talk to them.

If it's alright with you I'll send you an email and you can email me the two estimates. I'll give them a once over and see if there are any glaring discrepancies other than the cost difference. Like I and others have mentioned before, $10k seems like a huge difference for just OEM vs LKQ.

You need to understand also that most insurance adjusters will "write what they can see" into their estimates. A body shop estimate will likely be more thorough because they can put it on a rack, or anticipated damages that can't been seen. The adjuster's estimate will contain instructions to the repair shop on how to submit supplemental claims for additional damages they found that the adjuster couldn't initially see. This is entirely normal. This is how a shop estimate and an adjuster's estimate can be so far apart initially. But they almost always come to a common consistency by the end of the repair.

quote:

Originally posted by btanchors:
My wife was stopped in traffic when struck from behind by another vehicle. Police were called, agreed it was the other's fault, but did not write a report, because it was snowing that day and they don't write reports during snow weather events. The officer did agree he would speak in my wife's behalf stating it was the other's fault if necessary.

My wife's vehicle is a 2019 Toyota Tundra, about 15,000 miles on it. We've been dealing with the other party's insurance company directly - we did not contact our insurance company.

We had a hell of a time just getting them to rent us a comparable 4-wheel drive vehicle, which we required as we had planned on a ski trip in snow country with the family a couple days after the accident. Eventually, the insurance company caved and rented us a 4x4 Ram pickup, so at least we had comparable transportation.

Now comes the hard part. I took my Tundra to a body shop I strongly trust. I told them we wanted only OEM parts. Their estimate came to over $15,000 damage. The insurance adjuster looked at the vehicle and came up with a little over $5,000 damage using non-OEM parts. They said it is their policy to only use OEM parts if the vehicle is less than a year old with 12,000 miles or less - I am over that amount so they say they will not pay for OEM.

I know insurance companies do this to save money. If my vehicle were 5 or 6 years old, I might agree to this, but the truck is barely over their limits and is (was) in mint condition.

My argument with the insurance company is if 3rd party parts were so great, why not also use them on a wrecked vehicle within their 1-year, 12K miles limit?

I told the body shop I would pay for any difference between what the insurance company would reimburse and the cost of OEM parts - bottom line, only OEM parts will be installed on this vehicle for repair. But I was not expecting this large a disparity between the insurance company estimate and the body shop's estimate. I can afford to pay even that large a difference, but it is a matter of principle. I didn't cause this issue, the insurance company's client did. They wreck a Toyota vehicle, and it will be Toyota parts when it is repaired.

The body shop says they will argue heavily with the insurance company, that this is a constant issue, but there still exists the possibility I will need to get involved. The shop has already begun work to repair the vehicle.

Incidentally, the wife was not injured, and did not go to the doctor.

My question for the collective wisdom of Sigforum are:

1) Does anyone have any words of wisdom to arm me to effectively negotiate with the insurance company to pay for OEM parts? I do not want to involve my insurance company as the the accident was not my fault, and I don't want my rates to go up.

2) What arguments can I use for diminished value? Now that the truck will show a history of being wrecked, its resale value will be less.

Thanks for any experiences or words of wisdom!

do they offer a lifetime warranty on non-oem parts? if so maybe no big deal. I know USAA makes all repairs that they pay for meet that requirement. Also will those parts meet the original fit and finish? if yes to both no big deal. If no keep pushing. I know USAA ordered a non own bumper for me and it never fit right - they ended up paying for 2 bumpers.

b) The bumper is significantly damaged. The bumper has lots of sensors in it that must be replaced and re-calibrated. Only the Toyota dealer can do the re-calibration.

c) I had a ceramic coating applied to all finished parts - this cost $1600 for the whole vehicle. The ceramic coating will need to be re-applied by the same vendor on the new parts. I actually DID have this as a rider on my own insurance policy, but the other insurance company has acknowledged this needs to be done.



based on this, why not have a toyota body shop do the work - your experience may have been different.....

quote:

Originally posted by bjor13:

why not have a toyota body shop do the work

That ship has sailed. About a half-dozen posts above yours, OP stated that the body shop where his truck is, has already started the work.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
I had a similar situation. I told the at-fault party's insurance adjuster to escalate it to his supervisor, and have the supervisor call one of two telephone numbers:

1. My number, if the decision was to do this the way that I wanted, or
   
   
2. My lawyer's number, if the decision was not to do what I wanted.

I received a call back in less than ten minutes, authorizing things to be done the way I wanted.

''

Agree

quote:

Originally posted by bjor13:
b) The bumper is significantly damaged. The bumper has lots of sensors in it that must be replaced and re-calibrated. Only the Toyota dealer can do the re-calibration.

c) I had a ceramic coating applied to all finished parts - this cost $1600 for the whole vehicle. The ceramic coating will need to be re-applied by the same vendor on the new parts. I actually DID have this as a rider on my own insurance policy, but the other insurance company has acknowledged this needs to be done.

based on this, why not have a toyota body shop do the work - your experience may have been different.....

There are many Toyota dealers where I live - but I believe they all sub out body work to others, it's not actually done by the Toyota dealer.

There are a lot of dealer groups today, the single point store is an anomaly, typically these groups move body work to one point, or, create a body shop subsidiary that does the work for all the dealers, and has agreements with insurance carriers.

OEM is not standard coverage in most policies, you need to tell your agent to check the policy provisions, see if you have OEM parts coverage, and if not does that company offer a rider to add OEM. Most do, and it's a bit more premium that you pay for that option.

That is why I suggested you check with your carrier, see if you are allowed OEM parts under your coverage, if so let them pay for it and subrogate. If not then it makes no difference.

People that have always been healthy cannot imaging what it is like to have chronic issues. Wife was rear ended on the interstate when traffic was stopped. Has had issues ever since. No personal injury claim at the time. 40 years of issues

I promised everyone I would update them when this situation was concluded. It is not 100% done, but it is close enough to warrant an update.

First of all, I need to correct a major error I made earlier. Previously, I stated the body shop came up with an over $15,000 dollar estimate for the damage. The exact figure was $14,744.22 - Pretty much what I stated earlier.

The error I made was I misread the insurance company's estimate. I previously stated they came up with a little over $5K for an estimate. That was wrong. They actually estimated $9,722.86. So the two estimates were only about $5K apart. The way the pages were stapled together in the insurance company's estimate caused me to miss the final page - the page I looked at was only a sub total.

The vehicle has been repaired. Also, when it was sent to Toyota to have the new sensors in the new bumper calibrated, they found a wiring harness that was damaged by the accident. This added another $900 to the repair costs that were not reflected in the original estimates.

Both my wife, and the body shop argued like hell with the insurance adjuster, over many calls, over several days. The body shop also brought the adjuster in at least two more times to show them the issues. It was also escalated to another individual at the insurance company.

In the end, the body shop successfully argued so effectively, after the repairs had actually been performed (I authorized them to since I told them I would make up any difference between the body shop and the insurance company) that there will be NO out of pocket costs to me. All OEM parts were used, with the exception of a bed-step I had added myself, which was made by AMP, and not a Toyota OEM part to begin with.

Discussion of lessons learned in this experience:

• I was warned multiple times in this thread that I was making a BIG mistake by not working through my own insurance company. I did not follow that advice - we never once called my insurance company. Having said that, my situation was different, and for the average person, I think it is very valid and good advice to work through your own insurance company, even if the accident was not your fault.
  
• The reasons why my case ended up with a successful result was due to two things: 1) My wife argued very successfully and effectively. Due to training and experience from her former career, she is very successful in arguing in situations like this. 2) The body shop argued very heavily and spent much time fighting for us. They kept us informed of every interaction with the insurance company, and worked together with us to coordinate their arguments and reasoning with the insurance company.
  

If you have both of these factors strongly in your favor, you may be able to achieve a similar result. But I suspect most people will not go to these lengths and put this much time and work into the situation. I should also add that my son is friends with the owners of this body shop, and has done many favors for them in the past. I suspect this is one of the reasons why the shop worked so hard to bring this to a favorable conclusion.

So, in the end, although I had a very successful result, I still believe Sigforum's advice is valid and proper.

Many thanks to the contributors to this thread, and the offers to help!

I am glad things worked out for you. You are some combination of very lucky and very good.

A few weeks ago my son-in-law was rear ended. Two weeks later my daughter was rear ended. Both cars totaled.

Combined, they will be out about $10K. And, my son-in-law is a litigation attorney. So either he got the best deal he could, or there were bigger fish to fry.

Scoutmaster,

You're absolutely right - I left that part out - I was VERY lucky. However, I tell the wife that it was all due to her persistent efforts as it pays many benefits to do so :-)

Glad it worked out for you. I did this type of work for 20 years or so before I went to work for the state. These types of claims are difficult because the carrier is trying to save money and not take care of you. Your wife did very well

In my experience, CAPA certified parts are, well, CAPA crap. I just had to get that out.