Say there’s an intersection with two stop signs, one in each direction perpendicular to a through street with no stop. If I am the first to arrive at the stop sign and am waiting to turn left and the another car arrives at the opposite stop sign and is waiting to go straight through, when the intersection is clear to pass, who goes first? Do I complete my left turn or do I yield to the other driver?

First to arrive at either of the stop signs goes first after yielding to the through street traffic.

That’s what I’ve always thought. Last year I almost got in a wreck that way and today I got honked at and the middle finger. Kind of shook my confidence in my understanding of traffic rules.

I would disagree and kind of treat it like a stop light.

Once both cars are stopped and waiting for cross-traffic to clear, they (the waiting cars) are neutral to whomever "arrived" first and hence, left turn yields.

Too much time to "forget" who arrived first. (Like, what if both cars waited five minutes for the cross-traffic to clear? If the car which remembered it arrived first makes a left turn in front of the other car trying to make it across cause they forgot, who's at fault?)

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Originally posted by darthfuster:
That’s what I’ve always thought. Last year I almost got in a wreck that way and today I got honked at and the middle finger. Kind of shook my confidence in my understanding of traffic rules.

If you arrived first, and there is no traffic on the perpendicular street, then the other driver is an asshole.

First to the stop sign has the right-of-way once cross traffic has cleared.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47Zfm4pZAyg

The one going straight has the right of way if you were both stopped at the same time. If you arrived first and you waited for the other person to also come to a stop before you move, you are signaling that you have passed on your status of first one there.

However, if you move before they come to a stop, get to gettin'.

Given this very scenario, I think I'd always wait for the straight driver. Unless he waived me on.

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Originally posted by 6guns:
Given this very scenario, I think I'd always wait for the straight driver. Unless he waived me on.

As long as you don't get into a "no you go first" creep stop, "no you go ahead" scenario.

Seems most drivers are so distracted I just take the right of way a lot of the time & make the decision for them.

Since there are differing opinions here, I took the time to read the Utah driver manual ( I’m here to do some work and move more stuff to Tennessee). It states that drivers yield to the first at an intersection. The very next line says those turning left yield to oncoming traffic. So which is prime?

I read those as 2 different scenarios, unless you're parsing the text.

Opposing drivers both with a stop sign, First stopped gets RoW.

Left turn across opposing traffic in motion, yield RoW to opposing traffic.

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The one going straight has the right of way if you were both stopped at the same time.

This

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Originally posted by Anush:

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The one going straight has the right of way if you were both stopped at the same time.

This

No. Not this. (Unless “stopped at the same time” means arrived at the opposite stop signs simultaneously.)

In OP’s scenario, the first one at the sign (OP) has the right of way when traffic clears. That is the legal answer in every state I know of.

If you’re going to be involved in a MVA, make sure you were the one in the right.

And please, know the rules of the road and TAKE YOUR RIGHT-OF-WAY. Yielding it to be “kind” or “polite” or whatever doesn’t do anything but cause confusion, possible accidents, and generally fuck up the flow of traffic.

-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
That’s what I’ve always thought. Last year I almost got in a wreck that way and today I got honked at and the middle finger. Kind of shook my confidence in my understanding of traffic rules.

You were correct in your procedure.

The problem is selfish people, who will ignore the sign and not come to a complete stop, see you are near, and charge through anyway, "assume" that since they are going straight and you are turning left (even though you arrive first) are "entitled" to proceed. I drive like I rode motorcycles, with the expectation that any and all see me as a challenge, do not see me at all, or simply do not care about anything but their own selfish wants.


I have only been in two accidents. One, motorcycle when I was young and stupid, and not yet familiar with stopping distances and speed. And the second 40 years later, where a car left turned in front of me. It was a last second left turn thing from opposite direction, both of us had green, no left turn signal and (tourist) realized their turn just before the bridge, and just turned, and I was about one car length from the intersection at 35MPH, so I aimed the center of my truck to hit his passenger side, since I had traffic in the right lane next to me, and oncoming from his direction and I did not want to deflect into oncoming. Worked perfectly, and I was on the binders hard enough and it rotated his car enough no airbags went off.

Two other accidents were a distracted young girl who hit me while I was sitting still in traffic, and a "pizza guy" that was speeding in December at dusk and I saw home coming at about 50MPH, again me sitting last guy in a line of traffic, and I tried turn left off the road into the median and was about 75% clear when he hit me, turned me 90 degrees and slammed into the car that was in front of me with enough force that Pizza Boy dropped the engine of his Isuzu PUP straight down onto the pavement.

(maybe I need to rethink that "they can't see me" I might be using the Force incorrectly here...)

I have millions of miles of driving and many countries "wrong way driving" and all the foreign sins and rules, always passed every test for licensing, plus flight line/runway/airfield driving of all manner of vehicles, towing about everything you can tow, and driving about everything that you can drive, and other than the stupid MC thing (I learned very fast) and the head on I had, I have not otherwise been the cause of any crashes.

Only have had one moving violation in my life and over 51 years of legal driving, for speeding, and that was coming into Montgomery on the freeway Fall of 1998, and I failed to see the speed drop, and was driving with the flow. Since then, I have always made sure I am looking for speed limit signs all the time.

While driving I never "direct" traffic, nor do I follow another driver's "directing", no matter how pissed they get, sit there and do my best Tracy Morgan...



Cuz, it's just like the Drive-thru, if you do!

There's "right of way" and there is driving defensively. These days I drive like I ride. Everybody is distracted, on their phone, in a hurry, and generally selfish.

Drive accordingly. I'd rather avoid an accident and cede my right of way than get smashed because some douche was in a hurry.

"Stopped" at the same time, in the situation OP notes as they were both "stopped" at the same time to allow cross-traffic, means the vehicle turning left yields.

If the OP arrived at the stop sign first, and does not need to wait for cross-traffic, he had the right of way.

The optimal words here (and in the state laws noted it) are, "stopped at same time." Not "stopping at the same time."

In this case, both the OP and other driver were stopped at the same time to yield to the cross-traffic. Just as if they were both stopped at the same time to wait for a traffic light.

Nuances of words which could be better defined in the situation which the OP was faced with.

^^^That’s my understanding of it.

I'm going to have to relearn to imbed videos, but I thought this was funny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rpdQvuAnqM

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If I am the first to arrive at the stop sign...

Q.E.D.