Nope. If a school wants to bus the kids to a sporting event or field trip, make it M-F during school hours. What folks don’t realize for example is that these Thursday/Friday nite football games, in addition to the team/coaches, they are also busing the band, cheer leaders/squad. If they want after hours/weekend events, the parents/boosters need to reach into their pockets and cover the expenses. That expense includes the cost of L/E to provide protection.

If an activity is paid for by parents or other donors and run by unpaid volunteers, then it’s not a “school” activity that involves school busses, their drivers, fuel, maintenance costs, etc., that was the subject of the original question. There are, however, countless places where all those things are paid for by me and the few others who pay taxes.

Although also unrelated to the original question, I have mixed feelings about the fact that involvement in extracurricular activities makes it easier for someone to be accepted into a prestigious college. The simple fact is that many families cannot afford paying for high-priced activities. “Oh, someone will pay it for you if you can’t afford it.” Uh, uh.

It was a long time ago when many things were different, but I still remember that I decided not to pursue involvement in the Cub Scouts because buying me a uniform would have been difficult for my family. In another activity I still remember my extreme reluctance and embarrassment at having to tell my father who was proving transportation that day that it was traditional to stop at Dairy Queen to treat us four or five participants to a bit of ice cream on the way to our homes.

Would I change any of those college admission policies? Not my decision, and maybe it is best that the children of affluent and well-connected families get preferential admission selection to “great” colleges. There’s nothing new or different about that here or virtually anywhere else—including places like the “workers’ paradise” of the old Soviet Union. But is it fundamentally right?

I can't speak for every example, but I can assure you that it's more than common that these activities are supported by fundraising. It will still be a school bus. The schools don't normally own the busses. They pay a bussing company, as does the football boosters, or band parent committees.

There is probably a consideration of significant capital expenditure and orders of magnitude versus an operational expense. I'm averse to the former but indifferent to the latter. And some things are just senseless (Buford below).

For example, a $5M capital expenditure for a set of tennis courts vs just using a bus to take kids to a match ($500 per match?). BTW. when I played in HS, our school didn't have tennis courts. Our practices and matches were held in local public park courts.

Wiki: Buford High School (Georgia): The new Phillip Beard Stadium cost $62 million to build, making it the most expensive high school stadium in Georgia history and one of the most expensive in the country.

No.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Chartering a school bus and driver…...

Cool. So you guys are paying for your part of the liability insurance, your part of the premature wear and tear on the equipment, etc?

Never heard of that before.

Just like the tired “taxpayers dont pay for sporting events” nonsense. Taxpayers have to fund the electricity to run the tactility, if there’s a lawsuit due to injury on the grounds during the event, yep taxpayer are on the hook there too. Extra security, yeah the taxpayers pay that too.

But, continue to say we don’t pay for that. Maybe these donors should be less worried about financing a child’s game and more concerned financing students actually being educated. Imagine the feelings of the taxpayer knowing that we pay taxes to the school system for education, and it’s wasted on all the things you deny we pay for. But, let’s ONLY worry about pissing off the donors, right? Make sure their donations only go to what they want it to. Because taxpayer money isn’t real money.

Too much to expect, I know. Let the peons pay for that! And when they question how their tax money is spent, just tell them it isn’t so.

Do you guys also take the cost for the shootings that occur at these events? How do you pay for that?

Only people benefitting from the grift can’t see that it’s grift.

There's a lot to philosophically unpack in posts by Sigfreund and JLJ.

I am sick to death of annually having to vote on tax increases or bonds or something to better fund the school system. For which in my mind is woefully ineffective and inefficient in executing its PRIMARY function of education. And it's not based on funding.

I'm sure as hell not getting school trips for free. The wife and daughter are going on a school trip to NY next year; it definitely ain't free (or cheap).

Maybe I live in the wrong state...

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Did you pay mileage? Who paid for the wear and tear on the equipment? Who paid for the drivers time?

The schools sports program, usually the booter club. They pay for fuel, mileage and the driver. That's at least what happens in our school district.

I have to keep track of mileage, and time. The schools Athletic Director then gets the bill, which will have the drivers time ( my pay ), mileage charges, and fuel charges.

If the team doesn't have the funds, they don't get services from transportation.

ARman

I will also add that during summer I drive for a school daycare/summer camp/program. This is fully funded by the parents. They go on three field trips sometimes four per week.

The problem director can pick who she wants to be the driver, I of course is her pick. Anyway, every year before schools out for the summer I'm asked if I want to drive for her. I of course say yes. The next question is what is my hourly rate, I tell her. This is so she can figure out the changes to the parents.

On the field trip day, let's say pick-up time is 8:00 am, back to school time is 3:00 PM. I get paid for pre trip and time to arrive to the school, an hour. Then I get paid post trip and drive time back to the compound, and refueling time an hour and fifteen minutes. So that's 9 hrs 15 min. That she gets billed, plus she is responsible for food, tickets ect., then she will get a bill from our transportation department ( apart of the school system, I work for the county), for fuel mileage, mileage changes ( wear and tear on the bus ) and any toll charges.

The summer program director is responsible for paying for it all, and that comes out of her budget, which is the fees the parents get charged for.

So ever year, she has to figure out how much the field trip will cost, and how much the milk, juice, and snacks will cost, figure out the budget and sets the prices per child based on this.

The tax payer isn't on the hook for none of it, except the cost of lightning and A/C on a building that would have them on anyway because the office and custodian work year around.

Now, this is our public school district, I don't know how anyone else works.

I live in Kentucky. So, your mileage may vary.


ARman

quote:

Originally posted by jer830:
Nope. If a school wants to bus the kids to a sporting event or field trip, make it M-F during school hours. What folks don’t realize for example is that these Thursday/Friday nite football games, in addition to the team/coaches, they are also busing the band, cheer leaders/squad. If they want after hours/weekend events, the parents/boosters need to reach into their pockets and cover the expenses. That expense includes the cost of L/E to provide protection.

So, what you are saying is that the sports teams do their sports at the same time they would/should be in class?

OK.... that no sounds like a terrible idea.

I will say, that I have already answered this, but the parents/booster already pay for the bus, fuel mileage, mileage, and drivers pay. I as the driver fill out a trip sheet that contains time and mileage.
There is a set change for mileage and fuel costs. Then they ( our transportation department, which has a person that coordinates field trips ( she also has other duties like afternoon dispatch and training for special needs driver/attendant) take my time I record and bills the athletic director.

So, the football team, LaCrosse team, or whatever pays out of their budget, which comes from booster, and other fund raising.

ARman

quote:

Originally posted by r0gue:
I can't speak for every example, but I can assure you that it's more than common that these activities are supported by fundraising. It will still be a school bus. The schools don't normally own the busses. They pay a bussing company, as does the football boosters, or band parent committees.

Well, my very specific example in this thread was the school system trying to get us taxpayers to pay for astroturf for 5 football stadiums in the county, and build a new natatorium. Neither one was going to be funded by fundraising or parents. Care to guess how many of the 5 football stadiums have astroturf or if there is a natatorium after the taxpayers overwhelmingly voted hell no?

I live in Texas where high school football stadiums rival college football stadiums and an cannot think of a single example that wasn't taxpayer funded. The stadiums are taxpayer funded and ticket sales go to the athletic department not to paying for the stadium.

I've lived in Indiana where high school gymnasiums seated 10,000 people. The gynasiums were taxpayer funded and ticket sales went to the athletic department not to paying for the stadium.

I'll also add food for thought. The school bus IS the safest way to transport your child. An incident that would be fatal in your vehicle, or a rental van with some none trained driver, would most likely be a none injury inconvenience for the children, driver and parents.

In Kentucky, school bus driver training is almost 4 months. Yes, you read that right. A class A, is 3 to 6 weeks.

I'll give you a couple of examples of an incident that if your kid was in a van with some coach or random parent you wouldn't have your child any more.

This just happened this short school year. Football team coming back from a game on Friday night, two school busses. On a three lane interstate. The busses are in the center lane, they are trying to get over,as that is going to be the fast lane, because, the third lane/fast lane is merging right.

A vehicle, speeds past the rear bus, trys to beat the lead bus before the lane runs out. The lead bus driver is looking at their right mirror trying to merge right, they never see the crazy driver now running down the emergency lane. Towhich narrows. The crazy driver makes contact with the school bus, and gets pushed into the narrowing emergency lanes guardrail. The buses lugnuts rip that vehicle to part on that side ( passenger side on the crazies vehicle, while the driver side of same gets crushed by guardrail ). The damage to the bus you might ask? 5 small dents, a few minor scratches and a couple of scuff marks.

Not one kiddos even slightly injured. Inconvenienced, the incident happened at 10:45 PM, and the police officer did not released the scene of the accident until 2:55 AM.

If that was a van, most likely there would have been a mass funeral for the kiddos.

The bus in the rear tried to warn the lead bus, but it was so fast, and they didn't have a chance.

The next one is very short, but another field trip, bus in traffic and a crazy form a right turn lane, at a red light. The bus in center lane, light turns green, the bus moves forward and the vehicle to the right trys to beat the bus, and cuts in front of it to make a left turn ( there is three lanes center/straight, left turn and right turn ) the bus hits the vehicle, driver minor injuries, but could have been fatal, kiddos on the bus? Nothing and a scratch.

I don't know how your, State, country, school district works. I don't.

But Kentucky has the safety spec'ed out school busses on the road to any State except West Virginia. The training required is almost four (4) months. Class room, on the road, and Obstacle courses. Class room is laws, regulations, and the on road and obstacle course is driving, and I will say most people couldn't pass that in their vehicle!

I drive 800 miles average per week, sometimes more on one + lane country roads, requiring multiple two point turn around every route. Soon all, or most of the morning will be in the dark.

If I was a parent, I would trust my kiddos life to one of our drivers over anyone else, I know that our district has some of the best training ( surrounding districts do part of their training at out facility, one of our staff is a certified Examiner, think State police driver tester ). Heck our 8 hour driver recertification makes the news, not just local.

I'll say again, the team pays for the bus, fuel, mileage, and my time. Those funds are from booster, fund raising. No funds, no transportation.


ARman

I think it depends on the nature of the trip. If it’s learning experience or an intramural sports trip then I think it’s ok. But if it’s a trip to visit a bunch of drag queens doing their version of Snow White then it gets a hard pass.

If done right, there is more to education than sitting in a classroom.

And at the end of the day a taxpayer is always going to be the payer. Out of pocket or property taxes - it’s still being paid for by a taxpayer. No free money.

It seems to me that many people assume that all extracurricular high school activities in the country are paid for by “boosters” and/or fund raising measures. I could be blind to what’s going on locally, but I don’t recall hearing about either one where I live. Is my high school a strange outlier or do such activities normally operate under the radar so to speak and perhaps only parents of the students are aware of them?

And to clarify because although it’s been discussed, I’m still uncertain: When a football team travels to another part of the state in a school bus driven by a school district employee, are all the operating expenses associated with the trip paid for by the other, nontax funds? I.e., the school tells the booster club, “Okay, the driver will cost you A, the use of the vehicle including fuel and pro-rated maintenance will cost you B, and insurance will cost you C, for a total of D”?

And not just some places, but everywhere?

Again, despite what’s being said, the taxpayer is on the hook for school bus trip. The extra insurance, wear and tear, and based upon reading the grift the increased retirement costs for the bus drivers. A higher contribution to the driver means higher retirement costs to the taxpayer.

Those getting free shit from grift refuse to acknowledge its grift.


And an explanation to the taxpayers about KY teachers walking out of classes (multiple times) and bussed to Frankfort to protest. No doubt KEA paid off (rented) the bus drivers too, but I’d certainly love to hear how’s it not a stick in the eye to the taxpayer to use buses for subversive actions to taxpayer interest?

Or when buses were used to deliver food during COVID? I love the “highly trained” bus drivers that were getting mad because people were running their little stop signs. These highly trained professionals didn’t quite comprehend that the stop sign weren’t a magical mystical device that made them gods. KRS requires children to be on board. No children, no sign. Guess if they taught the actual law the course would be 5 months.

I don’t know that I have an opinion on sporting events. What did surprise me, though, was at the end of last school year I saw buses from surrounding counties at a business in town that was purely an entertainment place. Absolutely no other reason to be there other than for entertainment during the school day. That I for sure have a problem with. I’m sure it’s some reward for kids behaving or getting certain grades or something….but what about their reward being getting a good education. I have many thoughts on our public educational system but I’ll keep them to myself. Mostly because my wife has a few more years left before she can retire as a teacher.

As I pull into Chik Fil A to get breakfast, there are 3 highly trained buses from Dyer County TN plugging up the already limited real estate in the parking lot. Of course it uses way too much brain power to park in the nearly empty adjacent KOHLS lot next door.

I just need to shut up and keep paying my part to keep this grift alive.

I have no problem with field trips, as long as they are a part of their education and they are relatively close. Busing for sports games? Nope. It's one thing if we're talking about Rhode Island that you can drive across in about a half hour. Around here, most counties are larger than Rhode Island and the state is 600+ miles wide. It is not uncommon for schools, because they are in the same class, to go from one end of the state to the other. It is a ridiculous waste of taxpayer money. But then, that's nothing new.

Here's my question:

How many school board meetings have those participating in this thread attended in the last calendar year?