Thanks, that pic doesn’t show the flame top though.

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by LincolnSixEcho:
I have heard the epiphanies are nice for the coin. Maybe I’ll look at them again. That red one is NICE rbert0005!

In my opinion, with the better Epi models, you're getting about 90% of a Gibson for 25% of the price.

I've been watching a lot of YouTube videos on the Epi versions of Gibson acoustics. Are they 100% there? No but when it's 1/4 of the cost, it's difficult, sometimes not financially realistic, for some folks to justify the extra cost.

I have a Gibson Hummingbird, it was a gift. Would I have bought one? No.

For those considering the guitar's weight, keep in mind that it varies. I offer two of my guitars as examples:

Some random musings on Epiphone vs. Gibson: I've worked on a lot of both, and a great Epiphone is going to be better than a bad Gibson. But your run-of-the-mill Gibson is going to be better than the best Epiphone. I do not agree that an Epiphone is 90% of a Gibson at a quarter the cost - it may be more economically feasible to buy the cheaper guitar and you wouldn't know what you're missing without a direct comparison, but the Gibson is generally going to be the better guitar and also hold value much better. Both Gibson and Epiphone produce great and horrible guitars, and that's even down to within a particular model run from one off the assembly line to the next. I've owned Epiphones and Gibsons, and there was certainly a quality differential. The best, most qualified answer I can give you is this: Play the guitar and if it speaks to you, buy it. You're taking a much bigger risk buying either a Gibson or an Epiphone without playing it and inspecting it in person than you are many other brands.

Also Epiphone is not pronounced as "epiphany." From wiki: "Epaminondas Stathopoulos named the company "Epiphone" as a combination of his own nickname "Epi" and the suffix "-phone" (from Greek phon-, "voice")."

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
The covers aren't the important factor in the output of the pickups. The type of magnets and windings are what matters.

Partly correct and partly not. Magnets and windings will effect the sound more so than any other factor, but pickup covers do indeed affect the sound to an audible degree. Uncovered humbuckers will have a more open and raw sound than covered pickups, which tend to sound a bit mellower. Trust me on this. Of covered pickups, nickel plated covers will impart more bell-like overtones to the highs. In general, though, go with the look you like. I tend to like covered humbuckers on a Les Paul, it just sounds more correct to me, even though I think either looks fine. I built myself a set of double-creme standard wind pickups and actually went ahead and added covers to them after playing them uncovered for a while (which I wouldn't recommend a hobbyist doing).

Honestly, I wouldn't at all get hung up on the pickups at this point. Truly. What it comes with from the factory, you can swap them out for muuuuuuch better later on once you figure out what kind of sound you're going for. Gibson is a guitar company, not a pickup company. Because people like to buy completed guitars that work, they make capable pickups, but hardly the best. The important thing is finding one that you like how it feels and plays. Pay more attention to how it sounds unplugged than how it does amplified, because that's what the guitar really sounds like and the electronics are only going to reproduce and color that. Garbage in, garbage out. Oh, and people who tend to get really excited about modern factory Gibson humbuckers, more than anything, seem to be brand fans and purists. My old pickup company used to do the Pepsi challenge with those guys at guitar shows and we never lost. One guy said "it was like someone had a heavy quilt over the amp when I played mine and took it off when I plugged in yours."

As Mark showed, not every Les Paul is heavy. One of mine is a 2001 Smartwood Exotic, and those came with bodies that are much thinner than standard. It weighs 8lbs on the nose. My other is a 2005 Doublecut Plus, which is standard thickness, but semi-hollow and it weighs 7.2lbs. I've heard tell of Les Pauls from the 70's that weigh upwards of 14 and 15lbs. One of my old employers told me they weren't fully and properly curing the woods back then and a fair bit of that is water weight, and that really lent to the reputation of LP's being back breakers. But as you can see, they range all over. Don't be afraid to look at used guitars. I bought both of mine used and did really well. The Smartwood I got for $800, and the Doublecut, I think I paid $600. Now both of those guitars had been modified from factory, but as I had the knowledge and ability (and worked at a custom pickup company), it was easy for me to strip out the Duncan and EMG "upgrades" in those guitars and install my own pickups, and Tone Pros absolutely everything else while I was at it.

I always patiently wait for P220 Smudge to reply to a guitar thread. He's my resident trusted expert on the subject.

I have a 2013 Gibson Les Paul Traditional, 60s neck, uncovered burstbucker pickups. No weight relief in the body.

As you are looking at the models, weight relief is a big factor, a solid body will weigh 9 pounds and that can be tough if you are standing and playing a long time. BUT, it will resonate and sound amazing. I can hear the difference in the weight relieved guitars. A buddy of mine can't. You need to find out which you prefer.

Covered pickups are different than naked, mine are naked. I think that is because I am a product of the 80s metal bands.

Epiphone makes so good budget guitars, but if you always wanted a Les Paul, you will not be happy with the Epi. It is not a real Les Paul.

I have been toying with the idea of buying an additional Les Paul. I love the Les Paul Standard 60s.

It will cost you some $$$$ but, you will have it forever. Also, Guitar Center, Sam Ash, Sweetwater, etc all offer interest free financing.

Post pictures after you make the decision.

Dang P220Smudge, that was a very nice and thoughtful response. Much appreciated! And thanks to everyone else that has chimed in thus far! This is why I love this forum.

Dang P220Smudge, that was a very nice and thoughtful response. Much appreciated! And thanks to everyone else that has chimed in thus far! This is why I love this forum.

The weight relieved Les Pauls have circular cutouts that look like Swiss cheese.



The most resonant wood is usually lighter in weight, so a light Les Paul is usually going to sound better. A friend had a 50's Les Paul Junior that was the most resonant Gibson I've ever seen. Sitting in the case, strum the stings and the whole case vibrated. Heavy wood usually has a dampening effect. Light Swamp Ash Fenders sound better than heavy ones.

Now Gibson can use dead heavy wood and get lighter weight. I'd rather have a solid guitar built with better wood, or a fully chambered one with an f-hole.

^^^^^^^Interesting thanks for the pics of the cutouts. I actually got to play a few today, including a new standard, classic, and the Tribute. Honestly I liked the standard the best ($2500), though the Tribute actually surprised me and it played every bit as well as the standard, just not as flashy with less finishing touches. It was faster and thinner/lighter as well, and for half the price that may be the ticket. The classic was not speaking to me for some reason.

Funny thing I kinda want to see a few PRS guitars now as well and compare. I’ve played a couple entry level ones though not a CE 22 or 24 (their $2000 models).

Decisions decisions. I also would need to offload a ‘68 Mosrite Combo electric guitar to afford a new one. The Mosrite is a very nice guitar and online they go for like $3K and up though no one knows what it is when I ask them!

quote:

Funny thing I kinda want to see a few PRS guitars now as well and compare. I’ve played a couple entry level ones though not a CE 22 or 24 (their $2000 models).

My 2003 PRS Singlecut plays and sounds better than any Les Paul that I have played. Of course that is just my individual opinion.

Happy to contribute, hopefully I helped in some way.

quote:

Originally posted by LincolnSixEcho:
Funny thing I kinda want to see a few PRS guitars now as well and compare. I’ve played a couple entry level ones though not a CE 22 or 24 (their $2000 models).

If you're talking Gibson vs PRS, that's a horse of a different color. I like my Gibsons, but I want a PRS. One of my old coworkers still has his first "real" guitar: A Custom 22 with the artist package, lemon burst and a fat solid mahogany neck. He'll never part with it, and I'm in a long list of people to contact if he ever decides he wants to. It's an absolute tone monster and a beautiful guitar to boot.

quote:

Originally posted by LincolnSixEcho:
Decisions decisions. I also would need to offload a ‘68 Mosrite Combo electric guitar to afford a new one. The Mosrite is a very nice guitar and online they go for like $3K and up though no one knows what it is when I ask them!

Yeah, I can guarantee that somewhere out there, someone has a serious itch in their pants for that Mosrite. My old music store had a Ventures model come in on trade and we didn't even hang it, my boss took a ton of pictures and put it straight on the auction site.

All info here is wonderfully pertinent. I believe in buy once cry once. I have owned a few Epi’s and intimately interviewed many Les Pauls before I settled for my Trad Pro V. https://imgur.com/a/KJTyRmi

I must say, look them over really well and spend some time with it before you buy. LOTS of choices.

LET YOUR EARS , EYES, AND HANDS MAKE YOUR DECISION and have fun!!! Blessings

If you are going to go PRS........ reach out to me

quote:

Originally posted by sybo:
All info here is wonderfully pertinent. I believe in buy once cry once. I have owned a few Epi’s and intimately interviewed many Les Pauls before I settled for my Trad Pro V. https://imgur.com/a/KJTyRmi

I must say, look them over really well and spend some time with it before you buy. LOTS of choices.

LET YOUR EARS , EYES, AND HANDS MAKE YOUR DECISION and have fun!!! Blessings

If you are going to go PRS........ reach out to me

Wow that’s a sweet looking guitar! Yeah I am torn now as I love the LP and the PRS models just don’t know what I’ll like better. Do you have PRS’s as well?

If you'll look at my picture you'll see a contraption on the headstock. Without it that SOB will not stay in tune. I've consider jumping ship to PRS for that very reason. Gibson will not let go of that traditional headstock design and PRS has got the string and headstock angle thing nearly perfected. There's a guy in YouTube (i think his name is Robert Butler) that posted a video claiming that the Gibson tuning stability thing is a myth so he played a bunch of Gibsons and then strummed some open chords. Strangely, every one of them were out of tune but he'd say "Good enough for rock and roll".

Gibson needs to straighten the string angle across the nut and lessen the headstock angle by a few degrees to solve this. But they refuse.

Thank you for listening to my rant.

The Gibson tuning thing is not a myth. Its something I’ve learned to live with, even after going through my first Les Paul and changing out and tweaking absolutely everything hardware-wise that could possibly affect it. It’s not as bad now, but it’s still a thing, and the G and B strings go out pretty often. Some have it worse than others, but let’s just say I’m suspicious of anyone who says they don’t.

Is it this guy? I haven’t watched this yet, but I will later and post my thoughts on it.
https://youtu.be/LU333REZzLQ

*Edit -Yeah, he’s full of it. Those guitars were not in tune, and it was the usual suspect strings.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: P220 Smudge,

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
The Gibson tuning thing is not a myth. Its something I’ve learned to live with, even after going through my first Les Paul and changing out and tweaking absolutely everything hardware-wise that could possibly affect it. It’s not as bad now, but it’s still a thing, and the G and B strings go out pretty often. Some have it worse than others, but let’s just say I’m suspicious of anyone who says they don’t.

Is it this guy? I haven’t watched this yet, but I will later and post my thoughts on it.
https://youtu.be/LU333REZzLQ

Yes, that's the guy. Baker, not Butler.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
... Is it this guy? I haven’t watched this yet, but I will later and post my thoughts on it.
https://youtu.be/LU333REZzLQ

*Edit -Yeah, he’s full of it. Those guitars were not in tune, and it was the usual suspect strings.

Agreed but that being said, the String Butler does help. I do recommend it.

I personally also prefer the 25" scale length of my PRS. To me, my PRS Singlecut with Artist package sounds like a 57 or 58 Les Paul. And I like that a lot!

^^^^is that the PRS model 245?