quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:
"We Have Become The Gaza Of Europe!" Wilders Slams Horrific Night Of Violence Against Jews In Amsterdam

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Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:
"We Have Become The Gaza Of Europe!" Wilders Slams Horrific Night Of Violence Against Jews In Amsterdam

from:
https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...5/m/8950049305/p/188

I know that some members get nervous whenever even vaguely similar topics get their own different threads, but I believe the referenced post is an example of why it would be good to post about and discuss antisemitism separately from the war in Israel. Many such actions are ostensibly justified by their perpetrators by Israel’s current actions in defense of its people and nation, but I am convinced that that claimed linkage is simply being used as a convenient excuse for something far deeper and darker in the psyche of those who commit such acts.

Thoughts?

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Originally posted by SgtGold:
they hate Jews\the Jewish state?[Emphasis added.]

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To get back to my original point, I believe that the attacks and discrimination against Jews that are occurring mostly in Western countries these days—often by non-Muslims, although there is plenty of that—are often driven by fundamental antisemitism of the kind that has existed long before the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948. But regardless of their reasons/claimed excuses, I believe it would be useful to report on such things as the incidents in Amsterdam, on US college campuses, and elsewhere without those reports being mixed in with discussions of the war.

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Originally posted by sigfreund:
My contention is that hatred of Jews is not the same as hatred of the Jewish state, i.e., Israel.

Antisemitism or hatred of Jews

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Originally posted by Mr. Peteroniman:
But what I do know is that they have a lot of sway in our government (ADL, anyone), and there are a lot of dual Israeli citizenship motherfuckers in our congress

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Originally posted by SgtGold:
Names. We need names.

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Originally posted by Mr. Peteroniman:
But what I do know is that they have a lot of sway in our government (ADL, anyone), and there are a lot of dual Israeli citizenship motherfuckers in our congress

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Originally posted by FenderBender:

quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:
Names. We need names.

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Originally posted by Mr. Peteroniman:
But what I do know is that they have a lot of sway in our government (ADL, anyone), and there are a lot of dual Israeli citizenship motherfuckers in our congress

Everyone who isn't Thomas Massie.
https://youtu.be/2ieJkvkPU9M?si=N24pd1G1ADPSxWxD

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:
they hate Jews\the Jewish state?[Emphasis added.]

Well, you touched on exactly my point: My contention is that hatred of Jews is not the same as hatred of the Jewish state, i.e., Israel.

Antisemitism or hatred of Jews dates back centuries, long before Israel existed. Jews weren’t expelled from Spain because the rulers didn’t like the existence of a Jewish state. The Cossacks in Russia didn’t commit their pogroms and the Nazis didn’t send Jews to their death camps because of the plight of (some of) the original inhabitants of Palestine.

The history of antisemitism is very complex and based on many different ideas from the common resentment that they supposedly control all the world’s financial systems to the bizarre belief that they use the blood of Christian babies to leaven their bread and that the (bogus) “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” was a plan for Jewish domination of the world. On a much milder, but still common level, Jews have been discriminated against in Western societies, including the United States. The identification of Jews by the Christian church as “Christ killers” at one time contributed to antisemitic beliefs and practices, but again that had nothing to do with the state of Israel.

Therefore hatred of Israel is a different matter. Although even some Jews believe that Israel is illegitimate and should not exist, most of the hatred and calls for its extermination by Muslims is simply based on the idea that the Jews came into the area and displaced the rightful inhabitants at the time, the so-called Palestinians. And because Israel is therefore illegitimate, it must be destroyed, as pointed out by this quotation from the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) web site:
“The guiding ideology of the PLO [Palestine Liberation Organization] was outlined in the Palestine National Charter or Covenant, which was adopted at its founding in 1964 and amended in 1968. The Charter functioned as the PLO’s constitution, and contained 33 articles calling for the destruction of the State of Israel.”

The same call for Israel’s elimination has been made countless times by other Islamic leaders and supporters of terrorism, and it’s almost always based on the idea that Israel occupies land that belongs to people other than its Jewish inhabitants. It’s similar to the idea that “white” people should leave this country and give it back to the descendants of its original aboriginal inhabitants. The idea that “This is our land, leave,” also drove the anticolonial movements against the British, Dutch, Portuguese, and other European powers.

At one time hatred and persecution of Jewish people was actually somewhat less in Muslim territories than in Christian lands. The Qur’an specifically permits the presence of Jews (and Christians) in Islamic-controlled areas as long as they pay the jizyah tax for the privilege (that tolerance does not extend to “nonbelievers” or polytheists such as Hindus). That doesn’t mean there still isn’t a lot of antisemitism among Muslims, but antisemitism and the desire for the elimination of Israel are not exactly the same thing.

Therefore my point is that although the most recent attack on Israel and the resulting war were no doubt fueled in part by antisemitic rhetoric by modern Islamic teachers and leaders, that wasn’t the primary reason.

To get back to my original point, I believe that the attacks and discrimination against Jews that are occurring mostly in Western countries these days—often by non-Muslims, although there is plenty of that—are often driven by fundamental antisemitism of the kind that has existed long before the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948. But regardless of their reasons/claimed excuses, I believe it would be useful to report on such things as the incidents in Amsterdam, on US college campuses, and elsewhere without those reports being mixed in with discussions of the war. Like so many threads that grow to large sizes, topics that are only somewhat related to the war tend to get lost in the rest of the discussion.

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Originally posted by Mr. Peteroniman:
yeah, you got me, it is my opinion that several muthafuckers in congress hold dual citizenship as an Israelis, because that is where their loyalties lie, why don't you dig into it, because they ain't sayin

"...that U.S. elected officials must confirm that they are American citizens but are not required to disclose whether they hold additional foreign citizenship."