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Now in Florida |
Para's recent knife thread got me thinking about carrying weapons other than just a gun. Does anyone here carry an asp or retractable baton? Can an average citizen effectively deploy one or does it require a good bit of training to be effective? What are the pros and cons and what would one look for in choosing one? | ||
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Member |
I don't. But having taken a few Kali classes. I bet one could be extremely effective with some practice. A good Kali guy scares the be-jesus out of me. Train how you intend to Fight Remember - Training is not sparring. Sparring is not fighting. Fighting is not combat. | |||
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semi-reformed sailor |
I carried one since 1988, a 21” expandable baton was issued to me in the service for law enforcement after they took away the wooden baton. and when I became a cop, I again was issued one. Over the years I can only think of a few things they are good for: 1. Scratching your back under your vest 2. Reaching across the patrol car to adjust the mirror or ac vent 3. Pinning a snakes head down prior to picking him up They are completely worthless when it comes to actually being a baton. With the wooden batons we had before the ASP was issued, the baton had some heft. And the actual weight of the thing helped induce pain compliance. The ASP baton is a lightweight thin metal bar, that when used doesn’t really do what the prior apparatus did. Mainly the ASP baton was a political correct item that was issued to keep the cops from looking all scary while wielding a wooden baton. I have used them in training and in real life. I broke two while using them within the training we were given, only striking heavily muscled portions of the body. I weighed 160 pounds and have never been “strong”. I still have one in my closet since I retired. I would never carry one of my own volition. I carry a knife, a gun and a phone. I avoid trouble, I avoid troublesome areas. I use my brain....but if I was ambushed and hadn’t the foresight to avoid it...the last thing I would want would be a ASP baton. A can of OC would serve you better, fogger or stream style, doesn’t matter. Just went and weighed both batons I have. ASP 21”=15oz Nylon/fiberglass CASCO 25”=17oz The ASP is .43”at the tip just under the ball at the end. It is tapered. The baton 1 1/4” The whole length. I think the thicker area of the CASCO baton is what was able to impart the energy of the swing better than the tapered thin metal tube of the ASP. "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein “You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020 “A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker | |||
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Member |
I was also issued one. I used it on a large attacking dog when it came onto the street at our then Rottie pup. I could have shot it but the expandable worked just fine when I hit it on the spine. I used it on humans with so-so results. You've got to strike on bone to get compliance. Without training its a long paperweight. Most people don't flick the wrist hard enough to securely open and deploy it. | |||
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| Villebilly Deluxe |
The only thing I ever used mine for was poking things I didn’t want to touch otherwise. It’s mostly useless as an impact weapon, but it will break glass. I’d rather have a blackjack. | |||
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Corgis Rock |
I had one until my son asked for it. (He works in Seattle) Originally I got it for jogging and walks, thinking about the occasional dog. It quickly became a pain to carrying ended up in the closet. “ The work of destruction is quick, easy and exhilarating; the work of creation is slow, laborious and dull. | |||
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| Quirky Lurker |
+100 | |||
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| and this little pig said: |
I'll agree with this statement! Being a former Baton Instructor, there are certain moves and blocks that are taught. These are mostly taught to prevent the "Rodney King" videos that may happen if you need to use the baton. The baton can be deemed a "deadly" weapon and, if you are not aware of the Monadnock color-coded chart of the human body, you may find yourself in trouble. With the weight, size, and concealability of the expandable baton, there are better options as others have mentioned. I carry one because I have to. Please check your local laws if you decide to carry one! | |||
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| Member |
Most places it’s illegal to carry them anyway | |||
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| I kneel for my God, and I stand for my flag |
Most worthless tool ever. We call them search tools, works great for anything you don't want to touch with your hands. As an impact weapon, not so much. | |||
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Fighting the good fight |
I totally agree with all of the above. I would not recommend planning to carry one as an impact weapon for self defense.
I mean, you can get on YouTube and find people out there who appear to be very skilled with using batons and other sticks in demonstrations for holds, locks, pressure points, etc.. But those are not casual practitioners. That likely requires an immense amount of specialized training and practice. And I haven't personally seen something like that being utilized in actual real world use. (There's often a large disconnect between what works/looks cool in the clinical setting of the dojo with a partner who's playing along, and what actually works in real world fights against determined aggressors.) If you're willing to devote the time and energy to be a total master of that style of martial arts, and it is actually functionally useful in real world scenarios, then that might make an expandable baton a viable self defense tool to carry. But not for most folks. | |||
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| The Quiet Man |
I won’t say they are utterly useless. They are only about 98 percent useless. There is no way I would bother to carry one off duty. A good solid shin kick is far more effective. | |||
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| Now in Florida |
Well, it seems to be fairly unanimous here. Thanks for the input. | |||
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| Member |
I've had far better results with a good leather sap than I ever did with a collapsible baton. Of course, you need to check legalities in your area. | |||
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Get Off My Lawn |
You'd be better off with a small pair of nunchuku "I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965 | |||
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| semi-reformed sailor |
^^^this. "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein “You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020 “A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker | |||
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In Vino Veritas |
Used on on duty for years. The "CHACK" of snaping one open has gained compliance for me at times. Thery are very convenient to carry compared to a wood stick. I bent one on a guy trying to escape. No effect. Started carrying a cocobolo short Billie (made by a Sgt I knew). MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE. I have seen a master ASP instructor break boards with one. I didnt have that level of training or skill with it. Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun!!! | |||
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| Retired old fat motor cop |
I have only used one for snakes and large snapping turtles. Both times borrowed from another officer, refuse to carry one. I do have a PR24 in patrol bag and bike " Life is full of choices', Choices have consequences." | |||
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| Member |
My Texan sap was the most effective impact tool I ever carried, followed by my hickory 36 inch riot baton. My sap was later outlawed. I did carry the ASP for a while and found it worthless. The little mini ASP was handy to dig around in stuff and turn pockets inside out. End of Earth: 2 Miles Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles | |||
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| Ermagherd, 10 Mirrimerter!  |
My neighbor growing up was a WWII vet and city copy, he retired in the mid 80's, had a nice long run Me and my younger brother almost killed each other with the old straight wooden clubs and leather saps one summer. He used to work local football games when I was in my early teens and I was ooogling one the ASP's that a rookie was messing around with. That's just good for picking their teeth, he would say. He had the side handled PR24, and was known to use it well into his 50's. I quit school in elementary because of recess.......too many games --Riff Raff-- | |||
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