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The link as a photo of the CID $25K reward notice. The theft took place in July 2016, I do not recall reading about it until now. https://www.stripes.com/news/a...t-arms-room-1.509079 Army offering $25K reward in search for weapons stolen from Stuttgart arms room By JOHN VANDIVER | STARS AND STRIPES Published: January 30, 2018 STUTTGART, Germany — The search continues for information on a small-arms weapons heist from a base here in 2016, military officials said. Several semi-automatic pistols, one small-caliber automatic rifle and a shotgun were among the items taken in July 2016 from a weapons area at the U.S. Army’s Panzer Kaserne in Boeblingen, a Stuttgart suburb. In a sign that investigators could be struggling for leads, the military last year increased the reward from $10,000 to $25,000 for information that leads to a successful prosecution. “The case remains open and ongoing,” Christopher Grey, a U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Command spokesman, said Friday. The Army hasn’t listed all of the items stolen, identified the unit targeted or the post where the theft occurred, citing the active investigation. However, at the time of the incident a military official told Stars and Stripes that the theft occurred at Panzer, which also is home to elite units like Army Green Berets and Navy SEALs, as well as the garrison’s headquarters. The Army hasn’t said whether the burglary appears to be an inside job by military personnel or whether an outsider breached the base. Investigators are also mum on whether reward fliers posted around the Stuttgart military community have generated leads. “As a matter of policy, we do not discuss tips that we receive when investigating a felony crime,” Grey said. Anyone with information regarding this case is encouraged to contact Criminal Investigation Command headquarters in Virginia at (844) 276-9243, or the local military police at DSN (314) 430-5262. | ||
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Oriental Redneck |
Inside job, no doubt. Q | |||
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| Made from a different mold  |
Definitely an inside job by someone with working knowledge of arms room protocol. There is very limited access to most of the one's I have been around with only a few folks knowing the security codes which I wouldn't imagine are easy to crack. There were always backup fail safes such as physical locks on gun cages once the doors were even opened, so someone had not only a code, but also the keys which are normally carried by someone with command authority. While security is lax in most bases over in Germany, most of these arms rooms are done up like Fort Knox and most soldiers would notice if someone from outside of their unit were wandering the hallways (at least I hope that these guys haven't gotten that complacent yet)! While I was stationed in Germany, there was an entire Engineer Battalion that was busted trafficking Ecstacy. If memory serves me correctly, the battalion commander was an 0-6 Colonel and he was the one that basically set it all up. Just because folks are in the military, doesn't mean they're incapable of doing something illegal. ___________________________ No thanks, I've already got a penguin. | |||
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| Too old to run, too mean to quit! |
No question that this was an inside job. One of my duties when stationed in Germany was Arms Room NCO. They security was EXTREMELY well done. Long guns were locked in racks as were pistols. Even the small bore guns (for marksmanship competitions) were locked up. Locked steel bar door at the entrance, on top of the "regular" door which was double locked. 4 people got into the arms room. The armorer, me, first sgt and company commander. Elk There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour) "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. " -Thomas Jefferson "America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville FBHO!!! The Idaho Elk Hunter | |||
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I can only imagine the fun those soldiers in that unit are having right now | |||
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| Member |
The world just stopped | |||
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Glorious SPAM! |
Lol. "Alright piglets listen up and get on line. You're on my time now".  | |||
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Nullus Anxietas |
This happened over 18 months ago and they still haven't the faintest clue? Suggests to me something is seriously awry with their security protocols. "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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| Member |
More like they aren’t allowed to go anywhere or do shit. Probably working until damn near bed time too. We were recalled at 4 am on a Saturday morning and post locked down over a missing 9mm round and pair of night vision goggles | |||
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Unflappable Enginerd |
Seriously no video footage in this day and age? If they had it and it was disabled or "malfunctioning", well... __________________________________ NRA Benefactor I lost all my weapons in a boating, umm, accident. http://www.aufamily.com/forums/ | |||
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| Member |
I seriously doubt they have cameras | |||
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| Junior Member |
I've been following this theft and attempted, via FOIA since year of occurrence (2016). Enlisted my FL congressman and just recently, refered to this form by one hellofa (good guy) aid to the Rep (thank you Rob). The FOI requests have been declined using the 'ongoing investigation' to a straight forward request of a list of firearms stolen. In the SandS article dated 30jan2018 by John Vandiver, "Army hasn’t listed all of the items stolen" tells me a butt load more weapons "and other government property" were stolen. Annoys the crap out of me that the list of items is deemed investigation sensitive. | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money  |
... and the stolen weapons are long gone by now. They've been sold on the black market. "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| Freethinker |
Arms security isn’t always what we might assume. One case I was involved with in Germany was the theft of three M60 machine guns from a small base near the Czech border. They had been left mounted on M113s without so much as a fire guard outside to watch the area and they disappeared overnight. Although it happened in 1982, it was still long after the armed forces had mandated what were supposed to be extremely tight arms security measures. It was first logically assumed that it was an inside job even though it would have been difficult for any unit members to have pulled it off. On the other hand it was in a fenced-in compound and anyone climbing over the fence would have been very vulnerable to discovery at any time, so that didn’t seem too likely either. Extensive investigation by CID and the German police failed to solve the theft until several years later a German informant provided information leading to the guns’ recovery. It had indeed been some Germans who climbed over the fence, removed them from the vehicles, and then escaped back over the fence. The strangest things can happen. “I can’t give you brains, but I can give you a diploma.” — The Wizard of Oz This life is a drill. It is only a drill. If it had been a real life, you would have been given instructions about where to go and what to do. | |||
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Member |
I go back to my time as a LT arms room officer in charge of an artillery battery arms room (extra duty) in the late 70s. Two huge locks on the steel bar door leading to the big steel door. More big locks. Had to notify DivArty we were opening or alarms go off up there (intrusion detection system). All rifles and machine guns in racks with locked steel bars across them with (back then) series-200 locks. Lots of keys, all in a safe in the commander's office. IIRC, we also had 2-person rule in effect. Security under the auspices of AR 190-11 and other post/local/unit regulations and/or supplements. So yes, I believe there had to be an inside aspect to this theft. _________________________________________________________________________ “A man’s treatment of a dog is no indication of the man’s nature, but his treatment of a cat is. It is the crucial test. None but the humane treat a cat well.” -- Mark Twain, 1902 | |||
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| I have not yet begun to procrastinate |
Sounds like somebody needs a Ring doorbell. -------- After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box. | |||
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| Member |
^^LOL^^^ Back in the 70's in Europe you could sell your M16 for $500 and report simply it lost. Mercs were buying them up to take to Angola. The Army soon put a fine of $500 for anyone who "lost" one and the losses stopped right away. Wonder what today's street price would be? | |||
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| Freethinker |
That is one of the most bizarre claims I have ever seen on this forum. I was in Germany in the 1970s as a member of an organization that was involved in investigating reports of lost or unaccounted for weapons, and I never heard of such a thing. What I did hear of was entire battalions’ suspending training and walking for miles shoulder to shoulder through fields and along muddy and dusty tank trails in an attempt to find a 1911 that some unfortunate lieutenant had dropped on a night movement. Even legitimately losing a weapon was so serious that I knew at least one junior officer who carried a dummy pistol and kept his real one secured and hidden away during exercises so there was no way he could lose it. As for fines for lost weapons, they didn’t start in Europe in the 1970s. A member of my unit in Vietnam was charged with the common military offense of “suffering the loss of government property through neglect” when his revolver was stolen from his room during a liaison party attended by members of other units. “I can’t give you brains, but I can give you a diploma.” — The Wizard of Oz This life is a drill. It is only a drill. If it had been a real life, you would have been given instructions about where to go and what to do. | |||
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| Member |
CRAIGSLIST- WTS- I have a few slightly used M-4's... Errrrr, uuuhhhh, I mean Civilian AR-15's for sale. Minor grind marks, They're really more like scratches on the sides of the mag well. You really won't notice them at all. I built these to resemble the military version. Some even have a grenade launcher attached. All come with an ACOG TAO1NSN. Get them while you can, Colt is stopping the sales to anyone below the rank of Private, I mean, selling to private individuals. I think these are going to be HOT sellers. $500 a piece $650 for the M203 Contact Corporal Pete Smuckatelli ______________________________________________________________________ "When its time to shoot, shoot. Dont talk!" “What the government is good at is collecting taxes, taking away your freedoms and killing people. It’s not good at much else.” —Author Tom Clancy | |||
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