quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
It's true a shooter can wear a gas mask, but I do see smoke bombs and bear spray as a great start. Bear spray on the lens of a gas mask would cause some serious visibility issues.

They can always wear body armor, so a gun isn't a guarantee either. Step one is to accept that we need our teachers and students to fight back until the police can arrive. we can argue forever about what is the best/safest/right way to fight back, but let's start with the mindset that our kids and teachers aren't fish in a barrel waiting to get shot.

Smoke bombs and bear spray on a son of a bitch is a decent defense to start with and there's no excuse not to give those tools to our educators and students.

There are a lot of great ideas that can be implemented in this thread. I'd love to see folks in schools get off their asses and get things mentioned in here in place.

Just so I'm totally clear here, you're advocating for students or teachers to attempt to approach a shooter to tray and get close enough to spray them with Bear Spray? I think I'd advocate for ways to limit a potential shooters access to the school/kids/teachers rather than sending them into harm's way with an aerosol can.

I'm for all of it. Once inside, what are we going to do? Bear spray has a pretty long range. Smoke bombs can be thrown a long way. If he's coming in your room, what's the plan? Fight back is my plan.

My kids attend a private school and we are now raising funds to rebuild the front entrance so there is an airlock type door as Rhino described. But still, it's not like the other areas of the school are airtight. Plus, what if a person brings in a concealed gun?

Fortify is most certainly a huge step in protecting our kids and teachers, but it shouldn't be the only step imo.

they're not evaluating it correctly

the cost isn't in dollars and stupid solutions that are farcical

the true cost is in the lives of innocent students

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
It's true a shooter can wear a gas mask, but I do see smoke bombs and bear spray as a great start. Bear spray on the lens of a gas mask would cause some serious visibility issues.

They can always wear body armor, so a gun isn't a guarantee either. Step one is to accept that we need our teachers and students to fight back until the police can arrive. we can argue forever about what is the best/safest/right way to fight back, but let's start with the mindset that our kids and teachers aren't fish in a barrel waiting to get shot.

Smoke bombs and bear spray on a son of a bitch is a decent defense to start with and there's no excuse not to give those tools to our educators and students.

There are a lot of great ideas that can be implemented in this thread. I'd love to see folks in schools get off their asses and get things mentioned in here in place.

Just so I'm totally clear here, you're advocating for students or teachers to attempt to approach a shooter to tray and get close enough to spray them with Bear Spray? I think I'd advocate for ways to limit a potential shooters access to the school/kids/teachers rather than sending them into harm's way with an aerosol can.

I'm for all of it. Once inside, what are we going to do? Bear spray has a pretty long range. Smoke bombs can be thrown a long way. If he's coming in your room, what's the plan? Fight back is my plan.

My kids attend a private school and we are now raising funds to rebuild the front entrance so there is an airlock type door as Rhino described. But still, it's not like the other areas of the school are airtight. Plus, what if a person brings in a concealed gun?

Fortify is most certainly a huge step in protecting our kids and teachers, but it shouldn't be the only step imo.

From my perspective, since we're offering opinions, there are two phases of protection for schools. Number one is fortifying the school in such a way that it is next to impossible for a crazy to get in with a gun. I think that is easily doable with physical barriers (some discussed in this thread) and additional LE and armed security. In phase two, teachers, administrators, janitors, whoever are armed and trained to use their weapons. Execute those two phases and school shootings will all but disappear given it is well documented that even crazies opt not to attack places they are very likely to see return fire.

One secured and monitored point of entry in middle and high schools. Simple solution.

Elementary schools - a bit more complex since you have recess and would need to secure a playground area. Still doable.

Of course nothing would prevent a assailant from engaging students in the parking lot before or after school - but that is typically not their MO.

SRO Officer in every school. Done here now. In the past some of the officers they used looked like scrapings from the bottom of the barrel. Too old and /or fat to work regular patrol so they got stuck as SRO. But lately I see some young buff body builder types, armed Deputies wearing body armor, that I sure wouldn't F with... I did notice the other day that one came in an hour late, after classes had started.

Just because you don't have millions to throw at the problem doesn't mean you can't do anything!

Zombie-bar to the rescue!
Simple. Cheap. Effective. On every classroom door.
Less than 100 bucks installed I bet, especially if existing Maintenance staff installed them. I bet the PTA could raise the money in a month.

Only reason NOT to do it is finding a way to prevent the students from locking the teacher out

Next you have to train the lazy secretaries at the front desk to not just automatically buzz in every request at the already installed locking front door without even looking up from their morning paper.