You’re talking to an FFL about his understanding of the law and regulations. Even lawyers can be wrong about the law and regulations and they have the legal standing to argue what the law says in front of a court.

As far as fees go, I paid $56.79 total to ship out a handgun for two-day air. I suspected I got by very cheap.

Sadly I can understand not wanting to receive from non FFL's, because at least with another dealer there's some recourse, ways to get information etc. It's no fun for an FFL when mystery guns show up in the mail, no paperwork, no who it from no who's it for, or even no nothing. Put them in an unhappy spot.

About 20 years ago, I had a pistol shipped to an FFL through the usps. He lost his mind over it. He kept saying that it was illegal to ship through any carrier but ups and fedex. I had to show him the atf rules. He refused to believe that any gun could be shipped by the post office. He did the transfer, but he was convinced the ATF was going to audit him over it.

I bought a P365 from a guy in PA, who had his FFL ship it to mine. It showed up in a USPS flat rate box, no signature required, it was loaded and no name or contact info enclosed. My FFL knew I was waiting on a P356 from PA, so he let me know as soon as he got home. His daughter had grabbed it off the front porch.

I guess I'm just lucky. Local Pawn Shop Guy, a one-man operation, knows the rules, follows the rules, is straight-forward to deal with, and charges reasonable fees. I highly recommend him. If you're anywhere in the Orlando / Apopka / Altamonte Springs area, I can give you his contact information.

Since I'm in the FFL application process at the moment, I'll ask here. What is the risk to the FFL for receiving guns from non-FFLs? If they break the rules somehow in their shipping, how would that be my problem when receiving it?

UPS has changed their policy. No firearms from unlicensed individuals, even if going to an FFL. And I'm pretty sure FedEx has the same policy and USPS stopped a long time ago.

How To Ship Firearms

Shipments containing Firearm Products are accepted for transportation only from shippers who are federally licensed and have an approved UPS agreement for the transportation of Firearm Products.

https://www.ups.com/us/en/supp...-items/firearms.page

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
Since I'm in the FFL application process at the moment, I'll ask here. What is the risk to the FFL for receiving guns from non-FFLs? If they break the rules somehow in their shipping, how would that be my problem when receiving it?

There isn't really any extra risk. Its FFL's making up rules that don't exist to make an already over regulated process even harder. All you need is a copy of the senders DL and all should be good to go. If they broke the rules on sending, I take a pic of the label and gun and file it away in case it ever becomes a problem. In 20 years it has never become a problem.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
What is the risk to the FFL for receiving guns from non-FFLs? If they break the rules somehow in their shipping, how would that be my problem when receiving it?

There's a small chance of receiving a gun with no ID from the sender, so you can't log it in, and have to try to track them down to get it (or have the intended recipient do so).

Not really a "risk", more just a potential hassle, which some FFLs don't want to deal with.

But like I said in my previous post, if you don't want to deal with that it's fine, just don't make up bullshit about its illegality as your reason to reject receiving from individuals.

(And there's a lesser but still non-zero chance of dealing with the same hassle from another FFL anyway...)

The only risk is when a non FFL does not put their ID in the packag. We can't log in who it came from, which results in us having to play the whole "where did it come from, now contact that person etc". We've had that happen a number of times over the years. But we've also had shipments from FFLs where there's no contact information and no FFL so....

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
I guess I'm just lucky. Local Pawn Shop Guy, a one-man operation, knows the rules, follows the rules, is straight-forward to deal with, and charges reasonable fees. I highly recommend him. If you're anywhere in the Orlando / Apopka / Altamonte Springs area, I can give you his contact information.

There's another home-based FFL nearby who told me he somehow ended up in the FFL directory on GB or PSA, when he did not want to be there and, of course, a mystery gun landed on his doorstep. He waited until the buyer contacted him and told him he would not do the transfer, took it to the local brick and mortar gun store to do it.

I will speculate that should the BATF want to do a "trace" that they'd like to see a chain of documented book-to-book transfers, and that they'd choose to give an FFL that interrupts that chain (e.g. by accepting a shipment from an individual) "extra" scrutiny.

I hope the FFLs that have adopted this policy understand that their choice makes a potential confiscation scenario more problematic for the firearm's possessor, and that it is therefore an anti-2A policy.

quote:

Originally posted by HarrisonLLC:
The only risk is when a non FFL does not put their ID in the packag. We can't log in who it came from, which results in us having to play the whole "where did it come from, now contact that person etc". We've had that happen a number of times over the years. But we've also had shipments from FFLs where there's no contact information and no FFL so....

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
I guess I'm just lucky. Local Pawn Shop Guy, a one-man operation, knows the rules, follows the rules, is straight-forward to deal with, and charges reasonable fees. I highly recommend him. If you're anywhere in the Orlando / Apopka / Altamonte Springs area, I can give you his contact information.

Yep, when that happens I write what was on the box, take a pic of the label (and add it to the notes on my electronic A&D book) and move on with life. What can I do if something shows up with no info? You really do not know until it’s open and then it’s too late to reject it. I am not going to pay out of own pocket to ship it back either. So I just log it in with what I have.

quote:

Originally posted by architect:
I will speculate that should the BATF want to do a "trace" that they'd like to see a chain of documented book-to-book transfers, and that they'd choose to give an FFL that interrupts that chain (e.g. by accepting a shipment from an individual) "extra" scrutiny.

I hope the FFLs that have adopted this policy understand that their choice makes a potential confiscation scenario more problematic for the firearm's possessor, and that it is therefore an anti-2A policy.

Wow, are trying to spread FUD, or just scared of following the law?

It is legal, as stated.
ATF says it is legal.
Honest FFLs say it is legal.
Honest FFLs can set their own policies.
Policies are not laws.

Are you by chance either an FFL or ATF employee? Policies and scrutiny and confiscation, oh my!

quote:

Originally posted by HarrisonLLC:
UPS has changed their policy. No firearms from unlicensed individuals, even if going to an FFL. And I'm pretty sure FedEx has the same policy and USPS stopped a long time ago.

How To Ship Firearms

Shipments containing Firearm Products are accepted for transportation only from shippers who are federally licensed and have an approved UPS agreement for the transportation of Firearm Products.

https://www.ups.com/us/en/supp...-items/firearms.page

Damn that sucks for firearms owners. In the past, pistols, yeah I’d have to drive to the UPS depot in Mesquite. It’s far, and a pain in the ass because there is always a long ass line inside. You stand in there a minimum 30-40 minutes and I’ve had it go longer than an hour. My time is worth more to me than money. It was only worth it to me when fixing a problem with a pistol as I was shipping it back to the Manu to fix. But even now that isn’t possible. My FFL moved years ago and it’s an hour to get out there so this intel blows. Oh well, just another thing that turned or changed for the worse. That’s a nearly monthly occurrence with this or that so I guess I’m used to the bullshit at this point.

There is still one way for a non-FFL to ship via UPS - the receiving FFL can issue a shipping label to the person to ship it.

https://www.ups.com/us/en/supp...-items/firearms.page

"Shippers with an approved Firearm Products agreement may provide a shipping label to customers who need to return Firearm Products to the shipper (or to another address as agreed upon between UPS and the shipper). Customers may drop off pre-labeled and packed packages at UPS Customer Centers or The UPS Store locations or schedule a pickup with UPS. Shippers are responsible for ensuring that such packages comply with UPS’s requirements and all applicable laws."

There are some services, like Ship My Gun (a division of Bud's Gun Shop), that give the common person a chance to ship.

quote:

Originally posted by onegeek:

quote:

Originally posted by architect:
I will speculate that should the BATF want to do a "trace" that they'd like to see a chain of documented book-to-book transfers, and that they'd choose to give an FFL that interrupts that chain (e.g. by accepting a shipment from an individual) "extra" scrutiny.

I hope the FFLs that have adopted this policy understand that their choice makes a potential confiscation scenario more problematic for the firearm's possessor, and that it is therefore an anti-2A policy.

Wow, are trying to spread FUD, or just scared of following the law?

It is legal, as stated.
ATF says it is legal.
Honest FFLs say it is legal.
Honest FFLs can set their own policies.
Policies are not laws.

Are you by chance either an FFL or ATF employee? Policies and scrutiny and confiscation, oh my!

I do have a C&R which is far from what we are talking about here. I am not trying to spread FUD, but wondering what motives the BATF might have for doing exactly that. Shouldn't they be making it easy for FFLs and the general public to do business by publishing clear and transparent policies, and encouraging shippers to ship? It is certain that the BATF could do much more to facilitate and encourage trade in firearms (which should be their primary motivation, rather than hinder and suppress it through "creative" interpretations of the law).

I have no fear that firearms confiscation is in our near future. However. there is a substantial contingent that believes that these should never be in the hands of private individuals, and who knows what these misguided souls will attempt should they ever return to a position of power. Under the previous administration I have seen reports of FFLs being subjected to significant penalties for nothing more than admittedly unintentional paperwork discrepancies, and I suspect that there are still many BATF agents who will resist changes to these egregious enforcements. Perhaps we will soon see some changes in this regard.

Of course, FFLs can set and follow any business policies they want. However, any prudent businessman will understand the laws that they are working under, and more to the point, how those laws are interpreted and enforced by the relevant authorities.

Where are you moving from and where are you moving to?
Military are under different firearm regulations than civilian. Military in firearm restricted states do not have the same restrictive gun laws that apply to state residents.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGfourme:
Where are you moving from and where are you moving to?
Military are under different firearm regulations than civilian. Military in firearm restricted states do not have the same restrictive gun laws that apply to state residents.

Really? Can you point to the relevant law(s)? Not arguing the point, just curious and would like to read for myself. Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by SIGfourme:
Where are you moving from and where are you moving to?
Military are under different firearm regulations than civilian. Military in firearm restricted states do not have the same restrictive gun laws that apply to state residents.

This is correct, but I purchase all my firearms with a Florida drivers license and use my orders plus official mail for residency.

What I’m saying is that I don’t abide by Florida’s mandatory wait unless purchasing I Florida. In Maryland I abided by Marylands laws, in Georgia I abide by Georgia’s laws. Georgia does not have a waiting period as far as I know.

The guy is an idiot.