quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:
No they were scared that they would have to use lethal force.

That's precisely my suspicion. I hope it's not cowardice.

Yes, 1 man cars. I was brought up to roll into a situation where it could be a murder in progress...we have guns and vests for a reason...

We stage for backup on most domestics/disputes...but an officer should not sit around for what comes across as an attempted murder as it unfolds with the dispatcher. Kick the fuckin door and start to work.

Yes Sir!
You absolutely are the cop I want if there is ever any trouble.

Trouble is, with most calls being about a cop acting as a social worker or surrogate parent, more cops are afraid of being sued than they are of being shot.
And that is a frigging crime.

I'm old enough to remember you just didn't fuck with the police. But then we had the great "love in", "drugs" and the "Vietnam protests" and "Kent" and all the other bullshit that has slowly changed our culture into deeper rebellion.

I wish LEO could be freed up to " kick the door down and get to fucking work" when that's the decision an officer makes and our society isn't obsessed with mam be pam be, oh my god, rights were violated.

You break the law? you deserve to get whatever the fuck happens to you. period.
Then, there won't be cops sitting in cars.

Thank you for what you do out there, Sir.

quote:

with most calls being about a cop acting as a social worker or surrogate parent,

This is something I have been saying for a long time, and it has fell completely on deaf ears. Why do we send the police to someone that is "emotionally disturbed"? Is he breaking the law? If yes, send the police and arrest him. If no? Send the appropriate agency to fill his needs. If there is not an agency that fits, we send no one.
See, we have over at least the last 20 years that I know of, sent the cops to calls that aren't calls for service for LE. They are, "Well, shit, we really don't have anyone else to send, so we'll send a sector car out". We sent these guys out to fail. They, at the time, had no training whatsoever in dealing with these people. Now, we get four hours every two years. You think four hours every other year is going to properly train someone to deal with the mentally ill? Nope, the most important thing in the four hour training is how to properly fill out the government paper work, and insist repeatedly that we call the crazy's "consumers" instead of any other lingo because we don't want to attach a stigma to them. Are you fucking kidding me? You don't get the point that you are setting cops up for fail here? Really? Bad things happen in these situations and then we are surprised and appalled by what happens?
The police are bad overused for stuff the police should not be sent to. And it is setting us up for fail.

I cannot remember ever taking a call that was beneath my dignity.

If someone needed help, that was my job. If there was a traffic hazard, it was my job to clean it up.

I changed a tire for a little old lady who was trying to change it herself at 3:00 am. no garages were open. She wrote one of the nicest letters I ever got from the public. That is when the chief found out, his comment "That is not police work !"


I did not wait for the department to train me, I spent 1/4 of my disposable income on books and two other officers joined me whenever we read about a challenging situation, we roll played different scenarios to be ready if a similar special challenge came our way.

I cannot remember ever taking a call that was beneath my dignity.

I was paid well for doing something I had wanted to do all my life, the city, county or Feds owned me while I was on duty. Not the chief, sheriff or boss, I mean the people. I did not feel I was a primadona, but a public servant.

If someone needed help, that was my job. If there was a traffic hazard, it was my job to clean it up.

One night I changed a tire for a little old lady who was trying to change it herself at 3:00 am. no garages were open. She wrote one of the nicest letters I ever got from the public. That is when the chief found out, his comment "That is not police work !"


I did not wait for the department to train me, I spent 1/4 of my disposable income on books and two other officers joined me whenever we read about a challenging situation, we roll played different scenarios to be ready if a similar special challenge came our way.[/QUOTE]

I knew one of them, he was a sargeant in my little town 1/2 mile wide by 2 miles long but heavily populated. He never shot his gun except once a year to qualify. Never ever would go to the range otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Highway:

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
How did they ever get hired?

The hiring process isn't only flawed, it's just outright fucked up.

Met a cop couple weeks ago and thought to myself, "how the hell did you get hired? Probably had a connection..."

I share your feelings. Not that I'm so great, but repeated rejection over the last couple of years sometimes bugs me when I see guys hired that I can't figure out what they have that I don't. Fuck it.

Tom,

E-mail me, please. It's in my profile. Didn't see your e-mail in your profile.

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Fowler:I did not wait for the department to train me, I spent 1/4 of my disposable income on books and two other officers joined me whenever we read about a challenging situation, we roll played different scenarios to be ready if a similar special challenge came our way.

That is what they call the ACHIEVERS and relates to any professional were the individual studies on his own and becomes the cream of the crop.

I am not sure what is wrong with Fairfax County but it looks like they don't want to report a crime or do anything about it because it would look bad statistics wise and companies would not locate here.

41

LtJL said it best. Several of our new hires told me they had no interest in law enforcement but they wanted the money and benefits. How they made it through the hiring process mystified me.
I was taught by old school cops that even if alone and facing a worst case scenario, you owe it to your department, your fellow officers and your community to PREVAIL.
I was alone for:
One shooting
Numerous foot chases.
Numerous family fights
Numerous car chases.
Numerous OMVI arrests.
Numerous bar fights.
Scared? Often!! but I felt I had to PREVAIL. I never really considered any other options.
Also alone for:
Sitting for a few minutes with elderly, forgotten people.
Looking for non existent prowlers for nervous single women.
Taking out the trash, bringing in mail or starting furnaces for elderly or disabled residents.
Guarding the dead.
All part of the job. I believe that law enforcement is a calling, like those called to religion.
I guess I am hopelessly out of date.
Oh... forgot to add: There were quite a few times when I didn't PREVAIL. But not for lack of trying.

quote:

Also alone for:

May be the difference between working large agencies and small. I've worked both. Been in bad spots where I had to wait at least 20 minutes to get help, been in bad spots to where I have had to wait 2 minutes to get help. I've worked shifts where I didn't see another cop for days. I've worked shifts where I see one every half mile.

Some people get it, some don't. Some people seem all to content with setting younger officers up to fail, and that in fact is sad. This eager idea to set them up, and let them fail, to prove some kind of point tells you a story about people. Why there are motivated to do so is unknown, but some of it is sheer evil. Or large egos. Either way, it is driven by things other than what is good for the community.

We've all worked with that guy from time to time.

Chongo,

Has there been any fallout/follow up? Does the brass care?

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
Chongo,

Has there been any fallout/follow up? Does the brass care?

No. I confronted the suspect immediately and he was taken into custody. Victim was stabbed in the face, but was able to lock herself in her bathroom and will fully recover. Just by sheer luck, we had a sub 5 min response. But it should have been 30 seconds. So disaster was adverted, and no one will care...the sergeant was pulling up as I was yelling at the badguy...he was aware

What's up with the 'basketball tourney' shooting?

Media is saying hundreds of rounds fired...

------------

What I wonder/worry about is whether this issue isn't coming from the brass level on down. A civilian injured/killed by another civilian because of a slow, overly cautious response isn't really their problem. A civilian killed by one of their officers is. At least that's what they may be thinking. And the guys on the line pick up on that. Do you get that sense?

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
Chongo,

Has there been any fallout/follow up? Does the brass care?

No. I confronted the suspect immediately and he was taken into custody. Victim was stabbed in the face, but was able to lock herself in her bathroom and will fully recover. Just by sheer luck, we had a sub 5 min response. But it should have been 30 seconds. So disaster was adverted, and no one will care...the sergeant was pulling up as I was yelling at the badguy...he was aware

here the academies have become like puppy mills, just seeing how much cash can be gotten an damn the consequences of putting shitty candidates on the road. I may loose some creds here, but three years from retirement last month i finally took a 7$ hr pay increase and the desk job that came with it, as a ptrl sgt i was scared shitless what those kids coming out were going to do and wanted no part of that liability shit sandwich

No, man. I finished up as a housecat. i never would have taken the lieutenants test otherwise. My knees, my shoulders, my back, all were telling me to try to get promoted and let the youngsters carry the fight.
Now, every community college has a police academy, and the product isn't what it could be. My old dept runs a 6 mo. fulltime academy and turns out some fine coppers. They flunk a bunch out, too. And that's a good thing.

That is really good to hear!

I once was offered a teaching job at a Jr college.
The president told me that we had a lot of leaa money coming in and it was important to keep a lot of cops attending out police courses. He told me that I could not fail any as that would discourage more officers coming to the school.

I declined the job for that reason.

Slight drift, but somewhat related - departments that put too many restrictions on use of force have led to a situation in San Francisco. Officers there are not allowed to carry tasers (although the new chief wants to consider them).

http://www.sacbee.com/news/loc...rticle135325579.html

San Francisco cop wrestles pantless man in scene that has some wondering if de-escalation has gone too far

By Anita Chabria

A video of a San Francisco police officer grappling with a homeless man who falls on him repeatedly and loses his pants is causing some to question if the city has put too many restrictions on its officers’ use of force.

In the video, an officer identified in media reports as Ilya Faynshteyn can be seen attempting to approach a homeless man who was reported as belligerent and exposing himself on Feb. 19. The man repeatedly attacks the officer and knocks him to the ground until bystanders intervene to help. One of those bystanders, Kirill Zubaryev, recorded the incident on his cell phone and posted it to Facebook.

San Francisco recently faced a contentious civic debate over a new use-of-force policy that some in law enforcement say is too restrictive and could put officers in danger. It includes banning officers from firing shots at moving vehicles except in extreme circumstances. San Francisco is also the only major police department in California that does not issue electric stun guns, commonly called Tasers, to its officers, according to use-of-force expert Ed Obayashi.

Obayashi consulted with San Francisco’s police union on the new use-of-force policy last year before it was passed. He said that the Bay Area is “a different world politically,” where the community has an “overblown, over-exaggerated,” concern about Tasers.

After viewing the video, Obayashi said the officer involved could have had a reasonable fear for his life after being attacked and knocked down, making lethal force an option. The officer did not use such force, or even noticeable force at all. But Obayashi said that in his opinion San Francisco officers should have non-lethal stun guns as an intermediary force option for just such instances.

“It makes no sense,” said Obayashi of the no-stun gun stance.

But those who have long lobbied for stricter force policies at the department disagree.

“The SFPD has a history of racially-biased policing and excessive use of force. Adding Tasers – which are lethal weapons – won’t solve those problems,” said ACLU staff attorney Linda Lye. “The public and police officers are best served by providing officers more tools through de-escalation techniques, not by increasing the arsenal of lethal weapons.”

Now that our mobile computers have GPS that maps all of the units position in real-time (can be seen by all units and dispatch) the truth about who is doing what comes out. People driving AWAY from calls or taking the long way so that other officers can handle the big, bad suspects. Lots of cowardice and even more lazyness.