The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People again must learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. ~ Cicero 55 BC
The Dhimocrats love America like ticks love a hound.
March 01, 2017, 05:30 PM
SigSAC
The author, Richard Bach, the retired USAF pilot mentioned in the article as writing "Stranger to the Ground" is the same author who wrote "Jonathan Livingston Seagull".
An author who successfully writes different genres, while not exceedingly rare, is still very impressive.
March 01, 2017, 05:33 PM
Sig2340
quote:
Originally posted by SigSAC: The author, Richard Bach, the retired USAF pilot mentioned in the article as writing "Stranger to the Ground" is the same author who wrote "Jonathan Livingston Seagull".
An author who successfully writes different genres, while not exceedingly rare, is still very impressive.
He also wrote Illusions, a simply wonderful book.
Nice is overrated
"It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government." Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018
March 01, 2017, 05:53 PM
Hound Dog
I knew they did those in tactical fighters, but I never knew they did it in B-47s!. . .
Fear God and Dread Nought Admiral of the Fleet Sir Jacky Fisher
March 01, 2017, 06:12 PM
entropy
It all started with "Hold my beer. Watch this!"
-------------------------------------- "There are things we know. There are things we dont know. Then there are the things we dont know that we dont know."
March 01, 2017, 06:31 PM
wrightd
quote:
Originally posted by SigSAC: The author, Richard Bach, the retired USAF pilot mentioned in the article as writing "Stranger to the Ground" is the same author who wrote "Jonathan Livingston Seagull".
An author who successfully writes different genres, while not exceedingly rare, is still very impressive.
I remember reading that (very short) book when I was young. Does anyone remember what the point of it was ?
Lover of the US Constitution Wile E. Coyote School of DIY Disaster
March 01, 2017, 08:46 PM
smithnsig
Didn't the 47 have some tricky g force limitations with the wings? I bet that was threading the needle.
----------------------------------------------------------- TCB all the time...
March 01, 2017, 09:20 PM
Sig2340
quote:
Originally posted by wrightd:
quote:
Originally posted by SigSAC: The author, Richard Bach, the retired USAF pilot mentioned in the article as writing "Stranger to the Ground" is the same author who wrote "Jonathan Livingston Seagull".
An author who successfully writes different genres, while not exceedingly rare, is still very impressive.
I remember reading that (very short) book when I was young. Does anyone remember what the point of it was ?
To break away from convention took courage and daring, and even then your choice of freedom may cost you everything.
Nice is overrated
"It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government." Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018
March 01, 2017, 10:04 PM
Tailhook 84
There's a fine line between bravery and stupidity, and doing this in a B-47 certainly brings you a lot closer to that line. My hat's off to the skilled airmanship required to pull it off.
I was always convinced that the only reason we did this maneuver was to pretend it wasn't a one-way mission. In reality, if the blast from your own bomb didn't get you the AAA & SAMs in the target area would. If you managed to skate past both of those, you were bound to get blasted or lose your eyesight due to the nuke your buddy was delivering.
"The Truth, when first uttered, is always considered heresy."
March 02, 2017, 06:04 AM
Skins2881
Should have named it the Icarus Maneuver.
Jesse
Sic Semper Tyrannis
March 02, 2017, 09:32 AM
Strambo
Well, the graphic and the description/video don't match. The toss the bomb over the shoulder, full loop (like in the graphic) doesn't seem to make sense.
The low-level pop-up (tossing the bomb forward and up) while executing an Immelman makes more sense.
“People have to really suffer before they can risk doing what they love.” –Chuck Palahnuik
I'm not a fighter pilot, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn and I can tell you the illustration accompanying the LABS technique is not an Immelmann, but a simple loop. In an Immelmann the plane rolls over at the top of the loop and flies off in the direction it came from.
_______________________________________________________ despite them
March 02, 2017, 11:32 AM
Perception
quote:
Originally posted by Strambo: Well, the graphic and the description/video don't match. The toss the bomb over the shoulder, full loop (like in the graphic) doesn't seem to make sense.
The low-level pop-up (tossing the bomb forward and up) while executing an Immelman makes more sense.
I noticed that too, you just beat me to the comment. The video seems to show an Immelman, but the article and description shows the over the shoulder loop. The Immelman seems like it would make sense, and the bomb would leave with a hell of a lot more velocity than it would past vertical in a loop, and in an Immelman you would be headed away from the target after release, while the over the shoulder toss would have you closer to the target for the time it took to complete the last 3/4 of the loop.
"The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people." "Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy." "I did," said Ford, "it is." "So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?" "It honestly doesn't occur to them. They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates the government they want." "You mean they actually vote for the lizards." "Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course." "But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?" "Because if they didn't vote for a lizard, then the wrong lizard might get in."
March 02, 2017, 11:37 AM
sigmonkey
The B-47 performed a half cuban eight.
I was at Eglin and this test was part of some of the history we learned.
It was not a loop, and it was not an Immelmann manover.
The aircraft came in, pulled up and released the shape while in the vertical, pulled over the top and then continued pulling through and on the downleg rolled right and departed from the diregtion of ingress.
The procedure was to give maximum stand off release and the fastest exit by combining continued "forward motion" and the dive to put distance and time from the detonation. A loop, and Immelmann or "dash-drop-dash" all would result in less time an distance, than the half eight.
"the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" ✡ Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא שוב!
March 02, 2017, 12:03 PM
FlyingScot
quote:
Originally posted by sigmonkey: The B-47 performed a half cuban eight.
I was at Eglin and this test was part of some of the history we learned.
It was not a loop, and it was not an Immelmann manover.
The aircraft came in, pulled up and released the shape while in the vertical, pulled over the top and then continued pulling through and on the downleg rolled right and departed from the diregtion of ingress.
The procedure was to give maximum stand off release and the fastest exit by combining continued "forward motion" and the dive to put distance and time from the detonation. A loop, and Immelmann or "dash-drop-dash" all would result in less time an distance, than the half eight.
Monkey you have lived an interesting life! Thanks for that - B-47 to me is one of the most beautiful aircraft ever built. That is also due in part to its history / place as a the foundation for what was to come - and Saturday morning matinees
As for the idiot's loop - damn glad we never had to find out how well this worked with live gadgets.
“Forigive your enemy, but remember the bastard’s name.”
-Scottish proverb
March 02, 2017, 12:53 PM
Mike the Texan
Fascinating stuff. Probably fun to practice, if nothing else. Aerobatic maneuvers in a 130,000 pound aircraft? Sure, why not?
Here's a video about the development of the technique for the B-47. Some interesting shots, especially the cockpit view of buffeting and the landing view towards the end.
Originally posted by sigmonkey: The B-47 performed a half cuban eight.
I was at Eglin and this test was part of some of the history we learned.
It was not a loop, and it was not an Immelmann manover.
The aircraft came in, pulled up and released the shape while in the vertical, pulled over the top and then continued pulling through and on the downleg rolled right and departed from the diregtion of ingress.
The procedure was to give maximum stand off release and the fastest exit by combining continued "forward motion" and the dive to put distance and time from the detonation. A loop, and Immelmann or "dash-drop-dash" all would result in less time an distance, than the half eight.
Now that makes a lot more sense.
"The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people." "Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy." "I did," said Ford, "it is." "So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?" "It honestly doesn't occur to them. They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates the government they want." "You mean they actually vote for the lizards." "Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course." "But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?" "Because if they didn't vote for a lizard, then the wrong lizard might get in."
March 02, 2017, 03:28 PM
Rightwire
Many of the systems I trained on in college were off a B-47. An older professor and Air Force get once commented that the B-47 was a bomber that thought it was a tactical fighter.
Pronoun: His Royal Highness and benevolent Majesty of all he surveys
343 - Never Forget
Its better to be Pavlov's dog than Schrodinger's cat
There are three types of mistakes; Those you learn from, those you suffer from, and those you don't survive.
