SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    The Idiot's Loop
Page 1 2 

Closed Topic Closed
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
The Idiot's Loop Login/Join 
Jack of All Trades,
Master of Nothing
Picture of 2000Z-71
posted
Dropping a nuke while performing and Immelmann in a B-47. These guys have to have clanked when they walked to do that.

http://www.warhistoryonline.co...e_idiots_loop-x.html




My daughter can deflate your daughter's soccer ball.
 
Posts: 11749 | Location: Eagle River, AK | Registered: September 12, 2006Report This Post
Prep, Confirm, Roll
posted Hide Post
That's a big pile of NOPE right there!





NRA Certified instructor,
and Range Safety officer

OpSpec Training http://opspectraining.com
Grayguns - http://grayguns.com
 
Posts: 3172 | Location: Arizona | Registered: August 17, 2006Report This Post
10mm is The
Boom of Doom
Picture of Fenris
posted Hide Post
WTF? Over.




The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People again must learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. ~ Cicero 55 BC

The Dhimocrats love America like ticks love a hound.
 
Posts: 17459 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: November 08, 2008Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
The author, Richard Bach, the retired USAF pilot mentioned in the article as writing "Stranger to the Ground" is the same author who wrote "Jonathan Livingston Seagull".

An author who successfully writes different genres, while not exceedingly rare, is still very impressive.
 
Posts: 2768 | Location: Northern California | Registered: December 01, 2006Report This Post
Step by step walk the thousand mile road
Picture of Sig2340
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SigSAC:
The author, Richard Bach, the retired USAF pilot mentioned in the article as writing "Stranger to the Ground" is the same author who wrote "Jonathan Livingston Seagull".

An author who successfully writes different genres, while not exceedingly rare, is still very impressive.


He also wrote Illusions, a simply wonderful book.





Nice is overrated

"It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government."
Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018
 
Posts: 31382 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: May 17, 2006Report This Post
Official Space Nerd
Picture of Hound Dog
posted Hide Post
I knew they did those in tactical fighters, but I never knew they did it in B-47s!. . . Eek



Fear God and Dread Nought
Admiral of the Fleet Sir Jacky Fisher
 
Posts: 21821 | Location: Hobbiton, The Shire, Middle Earth | Registered: September 27, 2004Report This Post
Ball Haulin'
Picture of entropy
posted Hide Post
It all started with "Hold my beer. Watch this!"


--------------------------------------
"There are things we know. There are things we dont know. Then there are the things we dont know that we dont know."
 
Posts: 10079 | Location: At the end of the gravel road. | Registered: November 02, 2006Report This Post
Member
Picture of wrightd
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SigSAC:
The author, Richard Bach, the retired USAF pilot mentioned in the article as writing "Stranger to the Ground" is the same author who wrote "Jonathan Livingston Seagull".

An author who successfully writes different genres, while not exceedingly rare, is still very impressive.

I remember reading that (very short) book when I was young. Does anyone remember what the point of it was ?




Lover of the US Constitution
Wile E. Coyote School of DIY Disaster
 
Posts: 8637 | Location: Nowhere the constitution is not honored | Registered: February 01, 2008Report This Post
We gonna get some
oojima in this house!
Picture of smithnsig
posted Hide Post
Didn't the 47 have some tricky g force limitations with the wings? I bet that was threading the needle.


-----------------------------------------------------------
TCB all the time...
 
Posts: 6501 | Location: Cantonment/Perdido Key, Florida | Registered: September 28, 2009Report This Post
Step by step walk the thousand mile road
Picture of Sig2340
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by wrightd:
quote:
Originally posted by SigSAC:
The author, Richard Bach, the retired USAF pilot mentioned in the article as writing "Stranger to the Ground" is the same author who wrote "Jonathan Livingston Seagull".

An author who successfully writes different genres, while not exceedingly rare, is still very impressive.

I remember reading that (very short) book when I was young. Does anyone remember what the point of it was ?


To break away from convention took courage and daring, and even then your choice of freedom may cost you everything.





Nice is overrated

"It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government."
Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018
 
Posts: 31382 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: May 17, 2006Report This Post
Character, above all else
Picture of Tailhook 84
posted Hide Post
There's a fine line between bravery and stupidity, and doing this in a B-47 certainly brings you a lot closer to that line. My hat's off to the skilled airmanship required to pull it off.

I was always convinced that the only reason we did this maneuver was to pretend it wasn't a one-way mission. In reality, if the blast from your own bomb didn't get you the AAA & SAMs in the target area would. If you managed to skate past both of those, you were bound to get blasted or lose your eyesight due to the nuke your buddy was delivering.




"The Truth, when first uttered, is always considered heresy."
 
Posts: 2540 | Location: West of Fort Worth | Registered: March 05, 2008Report This Post
Ammoholic
Picture of Skins2881
posted Hide Post
Should have named it the Icarus Maneuver.



Jesse

Sic Semper Tyrannis
 
Posts: 20758 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Well, the graphic and the description/video don't match. The toss the bomb over the shoulder, full loop (like in the graphic) doesn't seem to make sense.

The low-level pop-up (tossing the bomb forward and up) while executing an Immelman makes more sense.




“People have to really suffer before they can risk doing what they love.” –Chuck Palahnuik

Be harder to kill: https://preparefit.ck.page
 
Posts: 5043 | Location: Oregon | Registered: October 02, 2005Report This Post
Legalize the Constitution
Picture of TMats
posted Hide Post
I'm not a fighter pilot, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn and I can tell you the illustration accompanying the LABS technique is not an Immelmann, but a simple loop. In an Immelmann the plane rolls over at the top of the loop and flies off in the direction it came from.


_______________________________________________________
despite them
 
Posts: 13166 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: January 10, 2008Report This Post
Member
Picture of Perception
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Strambo:
Well, the graphic and the description/video don't match. The toss the bomb over the shoulder, full loop (like in the graphic) doesn't seem to make sense.

The low-level pop-up (tossing the bomb forward and up) while executing an Immelman makes more sense.


I noticed that too, you just beat me to the comment. The video seems to show an Immelman, but the article and description shows the over the shoulder loop. The Immelman seems like it would make sense, and the bomb would leave with a hell of a lot more velocity than it would past vertical in a loop, and in an Immelman you would be headed away from the target after release, while the over the shoulder toss would have you closer to the target for the time it took to complete the last 3/4 of the loop.




"The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford, "it is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them. They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards."
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard, then the wrong lizard might get in."
 
Posts: 3509 | Location: Two blocks from the Center of the Universe | Registered: December 30, 2004Report This Post
A Grateful American
Picture of sigmonkey
posted Hide Post
The B-47 performed a half cuban eight.

I was at Eglin and this test was part of some of the history we learned.

It was not a loop, and it was not an Immelmann manover.

The aircraft came in, pulled up and released the shape while in the vertical, pulled over the top and then continued pulling through and on the downleg rolled right and departed from the diregtion of ingress.

The procedure was to give maximum stand off release and the fastest exit by combining continued "forward motion" and the dive to put distance and time from the detonation. A loop, and Immelmann or "dash-drop-dash" all would result in less time an distance, than the half eight.




"the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא שוב!
 
Posts: 43810 | Location: ...... I am thrice divorced, and I live in a van DOWN BY THE RIVER!!! (in Arkansas) | Registered: December 20, 2008Report This Post
Member
Picture of FlyingScot
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sigmonkey:
The B-47 performed a half cuban eight.

I was at Eglin and this test was part of some of the history we learned.

It was not a loop, and it was not an Immelmann manover.

The aircraft came in, pulled up and released the shape while in the vertical, pulled over the top and then continued pulling through and on the downleg rolled right and departed from the diregtion of ingress.

The procedure was to give maximum stand off release and the fastest exit by combining continued "forward motion" and the dive to put distance and time from the detonation. A loop, and Immelmann or "dash-drop-dash" all would result in less time an distance, than the half eight.


Monkey you have lived an interesting life! Thanks for that - B-47 to me is one of the most beautiful aircraft ever built. That is also due in part to its history / place as a the foundation for what was to come - and Saturday morning matinees Wink

As for the idiot's loop - damn glad we never had to find out how well this worked with live gadgets.





“Forigive your enemy, but remember the bastard’s name.”

-Scottish proverb
 
Posts: 1999 | Location: South Florida | Registered: December 24, 2007Report This Post
Skeptic
Picture of Mike the Texan
posted Hide Post
Fascinating stuff. Probably fun to practice, if nothing else. Aerobatic maneuvers in a 130,000 pound aircraft? Sure, why not?

Here's a video about the development of the technique for the B-47. Some interesting shots, especially the cockpit view of buffeting and the landing view towards the end.




Link to original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cIgTAtj4E4
 
Posts: 220 | Location: Near a white sand beach. | Registered: October 11, 2004Report This Post
Member
Picture of Perception
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sigmonkey:
The B-47 performed a half cuban eight.

I was at Eglin and this test was part of some of the history we learned.

It was not a loop, and it was not an Immelmann manover.

The aircraft came in, pulled up and released the shape while in the vertical, pulled over the top and then continued pulling through and on the downleg rolled right and departed from the diregtion of ingress.

The procedure was to give maximum stand off release and the fastest exit by combining continued "forward motion" and the dive to put distance and time from the detonation. A loop, and Immelmann or "dash-drop-dash" all would result in less time an distance, than the half eight.


Now that makes a lot more sense.




"The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford, "it is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them. They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards."
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard, then the wrong lizard might get in."
 
Posts: 3509 | Location: Two blocks from the Center of the Universe | Registered: December 30, 2004Report This Post
Coin Sniper
Picture of Rightwire
posted Hide Post
Many of the systems I trained on in college were off a B-47. An older professor and Air Force get once commented that the B-47 was a bomber that thought it was a tactical fighter.




Pronoun: His Royal Highness and benevolent Majesty of all he surveys

343 - Never Forget

Its better to be Pavlov's dog than Schrodinger's cat

There are three types of mistakes; Those you learn from, those you suffer from, and those you don't survive.
 
Posts: 37931 | Location: Above the snow line in Michigan | Registered: May 21, 2004Report This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2  

Closed Topic Closed

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    The Idiot's Loop

© SIGforum 2024