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| Member |
There's just nothing positive for the Navy's 7th Fleet. While complaining is the right of the enlisted, there's clearly a pattern of bad command climate, the bosses knew it but, soft-peddled it. https://www.navytimes.com/news...e-on-cruiser-shiloh/
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Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici |
Mattis has his role at a pivotal time in history. God bless him, and all that serve with him. _________________________ NRA Endowment Member _________________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C.S. Lewis | |||
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Member |
Obama forced out the best and kept the political boot lickers... _________________________ Trump Fight, Fight, Fight Flags https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...050018905#1050018905 | |||
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| I Am The Walrus |
Sounds like the current unit I'm in but at the Battalion level. _____________ | |||
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| Member |
-c1steve | |||
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Stangosaurus Rex |
I had read in an article that sailors wer put in the brig and put on bread and water for minor infractions or mistakes related to performance. That class if ship does not have a brig. I wonder whefd they were held? ___________________________ "I Get It Now" Beth Greene | |||
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Better Than I Deserve! |
This is what happens when you force the leaders out of the military and keep "yes men" that are only concerned about their careers and kissing the Chain of Commands ass even if it destroys the crew. ____________________________ NRA Benefactor Life Member GOA Life Member Arizona Citizens Defense League Life Member | |||
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Official Space Nerd |
The president doesn't have THAT much influence. There have always been bad commanders; and there will comtinue to be some that slip through the cracks in the future. I had quite a few of these toxic 'leaders' in my 23+ year USAF career (3 of the worst were Navy during a joint stint at USSTRATCOM). zippy the wonder turtle created a bad environment and pushed leftist/PC 'leaders' at the HQ and other flag officer levels, but this commander is there because of Navy personnel, not executive branch. The Navy owns this problem, through pushing officers who possess poor leadership skills into positions of authority. Fear God and Dread Nought Admiral of the Fleet Sir Jacky Fisher | |||
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| Too old to run, too mean to quit! |
Perhaps you remember the LOOOOONG list of flag level officers that were "retired" after obummer took office? Elk There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour) "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. " -Thomas Jefferson "America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville FBHO!!! The Idaho Elk Hunter | |||
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| Member |
OK, but why would the Navy continue to let this go on???? They took 3 surveys and the first survey was bad, a period of time went on and then a second survey which was worse, then more time want on and a third survey that was even worse than the last two. Why didn't the hire ups make a complete change of the upper management of the crew??? | |||
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Member |
The same ship where that sailor hid onboard. https://www.navytimes.com/news...transferred-to-brig/ quote: ----------------------------------------------- The now-infamous Shiloh sailor who was presumed overboard earlier this month — only to turn up in the cruiser's engineering spaces a week later — was moved to the brig at Marine Corps Air Station Miramar in San Diego this week for pre-trial confinement on possible court-martial charges, U.S. Pacific Fleet officials said. Gas Turbine Systems Technician (Mechanical) 3rd Class Peter Mims, 23, was reported missing and assumed overboard June 8 as the guided-missile cruiser was conducting routine operations off the coast of Okinawa. Mims, whose home of record is listed as Interlachen, Florida, was found in the ship's engineering spaces a week after going missing and turned himself in to shipmates, Pacific Fleet spokesman Lt. Cmdr. Matt Knight said in an email. "We do not know all the details and motivations behind this Sailor's week-long disappearance," Knight said. "This matter remains under investigation, but early indications are that he had taken steps to avoid being found by other Sailors, who were actively attempting to locate him." His disappearance sparked a massive 50-hour manhunt involving U.S. and Japanese forces. Helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft from the carrier Ronald Reagan, a P-8 maritime patrol aircraft, the destroyers John S. McCain and McCampbell, and the Reagan itself all assisted Shiloh in the search for Mims. ----------------------------------------------- | |||
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Age Quod Agis |
I agree. This is two phase problem; the first is a command climate that allows conduct like this to continue, and the second is the bureaucratic and selection structure that creates the people in the command chain. This problem is much more than 8 years (two presidential terms) long. I saw it in the Army in the early '90s. The Army was promoting guys who were ring knockers, looked good, ran fast, and talked hooah over those who were thoughtful, competent leaders of men. Fortunately, the Army's low point came before the second Iraq war, and they fixed some of those command issues. Not all, by any measure, but many. The Navy is deeper in the shit, and hasn't started the cleaning process yet. All of these commanders who are having problems are serving their higher chain of command (unreasonable op tempo, submission to stupid training and bullshit requirements, etc.), and protecting their own careers (micromanaging, screwing subordinates, putting up a front instead of getting it done) at the expense of supporting their troops. Leadership is about setting objectives, securing the resources to obtain the objectives, and motivating and supporting your people to achieve the objective. It isn't about YOU. Sometimes it means telling those above you that you can't achieve the objective they set with the resources they have authorized. Right now, in the Navy that means you don't get promoted so it never happens, but it is the only way that leadership can truly function. Senior leadership is not about saying "YES SIR" to every order you get. I know special ops guys in Afghanistan who called off missions when promised support (air, artillery, etc.) didn't show up, and they were supported by their chain of command. The Navy hasn't learned that lesson yet, because no one is shooting at them. So their sailors pay the price in unsafe, unready ships, exhaustion, overwork and an abusive work environment. Something has to change. Firing a bunch of senior Admirals, including the CNO, would be a good start. This is a massive command environment and command selection problem and it will take years to wash these people out of the system. "I vowed to myself to fight against evil more completely and more wholeheartedly than I ever did before. . . . That’s the only way to pay back part of that vast debt, to live up to and try to fulfill that tremendous obligation." Alfred Hornik, Sunday, December 2, 1945 to his family, on his continuing duty to others for surviving WW II. | |||
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| Official Space Nerd |
Yeah, I remember. I also remember that most of those flag officers were caught while embezzling funds, not keeping their zippers zipped, and a wide variety of other serious legal issues. We read how some some Lt Col would be busted for raping a passed-out-drunk Lieutenant after a party, and people would run around screaming on how zippy was 'ruining the military.' MOST of those replaced/coerced into retirement were brought down by their own vices, not potus. The president can only really influence those at the very top. Of course, a lot of harm was done there during the last 'presidency.' However, this lower-level stuff is STILL the responsibility of the mid-level Navy leadership. Bad commanders are nothing new. There was the first female ship Capt who would would scream and swear at everybody, stand jr officers in the corner, and drive the crew like slaves. There have been others removed for "lack of ability to effectively lead." I would be surprised if most of these cases even made to potus' desk, unless they made the news cycle. Fear God and Dread Nought Admiral of the Fleet Sir Jacky Fisher | |||
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Member |
The emphasis is mine, but is this guy more worried about looking ineffective or being ineffective? ———- Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for thou art crunchy and taste good with catsup. | |||
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| Official Space Nerd |
I read it as the ship IS inneffective, and a real crisis will show it to the world. He's concerned that people will die because his ship is incapable of performing its mission. Fear God and Dread Nought Admiral of the Fleet Sir Jacky Fisher | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process  |
The guy with the second key to the launch console left them in his pants and they are tearing up a Navy Exchange dry cleaning shop in Olongapo hoping to find them. Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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| Member |
The Sea Witch, Capt. Holly Graf...the female version of Phillip Queeg, who after all the investigations, ended up receiving an honorable retirement. | |||
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| Big Stack |
I think a lot of this is sequestration coming home to roost. The military has been forced to do at least as much, if not more, with less money. So corners are being cut. We're now seeing the effects. | |||
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| Member |
This one is on Navy leadership. Ponder this nugget.. Last year for several months, the US Navy had more Admirals, than ships. And, we're not that far from achieving and maintaining such dubious achievement. | |||
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| Oh stewardess, I speak jive.  |
(chuckle) Right. Anonymous.
There's no shortage of funds, we have enormous if not other-worldly defense budgets, and our Navy gets a ginormous piece of it. They have plenty of funds, and then some. What there is is a lack of adequate and accurate prioritization, too much waste, and too little accountability, and thus the cycle infinitely repeats. Cough (littoral ships), cough (never ending search for camo), cough (F35), ad nauseum. One million wasted means little, but it ads up, day after day after day. | |||
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