It is paramount. Self employed for 33 years before retiring. No dumb bastard is telling me what to do all day.

I'm practically unsupervised in my current job. I know what to do, and I do it. Once in a great while I get a minor correction, or asked to do something. The workplace is so laid back I could practically sleep thru it.

I worked for the federal government for 25 years and retired. I also had a great deal of latitude in my job, although I was required to follow policies and sometimes answer in court. The policies were written and clear-cut, and I had the ability to criticize them and often they would be revised OR explained better.

If you haven't worked for a government, all you know is stereotypes. Don't knock it until you've tried it.

I rate workplace freedom (autonomy) second only to pay. I have been doing my job over 20 years. I have little to no direct supervision and I don't need it nor do I take advantage of the freedom. There are several co-workers who do take advantage and I'm afraid the boss is going to tighten the reigns before I retire. That would suck.

The real question should be, "Does anyone on here rate freedom at work as not so important?" I'm going to go out on a limb and say "no". Actually, "Hell no!"

In my trade we have a defined scope of work but rarely are we held to an any supervision on how we get that done. The scope, the customers satisfaction, and to some extent the deadline are all we consider.
I would not like my job if I had someone on my back about how and when I accomplish tasks. I treat my apprentices with same consideration and try to be realistic with the daily work load.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
The real question should be, "Does anyone on here rate freedom at work as not so important?" I'm going to go out on a limb and say "no". Actually, "Hell no!"

I dunno. I know a lot of people who stay in a job because of money, and they have no freedom and constantly micromanaged

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
The real question should be, "Does anyone on here rate freedom at work as not so important?" I'm going to go out on a limb and say "no". Actually, "Hell no!"

I dunno. I know a lot of people who stay in a job because of money, and they have no freedom and constantly micromanaged

Who on here doesn't rate "freedom" at work as important?

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
The real question should be, "Does anyone on here rate freedom at work as not so important?" I'm going to go out on a limb and say "no". Actually, "Hell no!"

I dunno. I know a lot of people who stay in a job because of money, and they have no freedom and constantly micromanaged

Who on here doesn't rate "freedom" at work as important?

No idea. But, know there’s several guys that continue to live in occupied states due to the job. You’d have to think that there are those who are trapped by money with little freedom or even satisfaction. That’s not valuing it, that’s longing for it.

I've been a heavy Equipment Mechanic for North of 40 years. Wrenching for 56.
If I need anyone to give me advice or direction, they're either over 75 or ignored.
I go to work and decide what my priority is and enjoy the freedom to make the correct decisions.
Making big American $$ helps too!
2 years and I'm going fishing.

Funny you bring this up...I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

It's pretty important to me. My first "real" job was with a big fortune 500 corporation. I had 5 different bosses, several of whom were off-site and in the 2.5 years I was there I never met 2 of them in person. That place was the stereotypical corporate hell, complete with their own version of TPS reports, micromanagment, and overbearing bureaucracy. I ended up taking a $10K a year pay cut to get out of there and move to a smaller place with a much better work environment.

That ended up being one of the best decisions I ever made. I was there for 9 years and enjoyed almost every minute of it. I got to work for the best boss I ever had, who trained me and then trusted me to do my job. He invested in us as employees, made sure we had what we needed, and then stayed out of the way...but his door was always open if we needed him.

After 9 years there I got the opportunity to make a career change into LE, which I'd been working towards for six years. It was strange leaving a job that I liked for a different career path, but this was what I wanted to do so I made the jump.

I work in a small town, have a great boss, and spent my first 6 years on midnights, so I had almost unlimited freedom...sometimes it was almost too much. There was no micromanagement, but especially as a new guy I didn't always have the answers to everything, and when those issues came up there was nobody to solve them but me unless I wanted to call and wake somebody up in the middle of the night (which did happen on occasion). I somehow got through those early years without getting sued, fired, or killed. Occasionally I'd get one of those calls in the morning that started with "what did you do?!?!" but not very often.

I loved working midnights, but we had some staffing changes this past August, and that in conjunction with some medical stuff it finally pushed me over the edge to move to days. My wife and kids like it because I'm awake on my days off and I'm less grumpy and tired all the time, but work just isn't the same. I lack the freedom I had on nights...not because my boss micromanages me (getting to work directly with him has been one of the most enjoyable things about moving to days), but because my work day gets filled up with details and busy-work daytime calls, I no longer have the flexibility to do the fun proactive stuff that I used to do. The inter-departmental cooperation just isn't the same during the day, either...nights was a small tight-knit crew county-wide that enjoyed going out and stopping crime. On day shift, the "real" police work has to compete with meetings, title-checks, old people who can't drive, and watching crosswalks. Everybody is busy trying to keep up with their own calls. There are still rewarding aspects to the job, but its not anywhere near as fun as night shift.

This was my choice, and I have the seniority to go back to nights if I want. I just have to weigh the value of the freedom and sheer enjoyment of the job compared to quality of time with my wife and kids at home, and my physical health. My plan at this point is to give it a full year so I can experience the whole range of changes through the seasons, and then decide what to do from there. But yeah...the "freedom" at work question kinda hits home for me at the moment.

Freedom? AT work? Not sure of the concept...

I love freedom in the work place. I quit my instructor job because of micro managing by the superintendent. We had to pre-shop get prices then submit the prices and get an OK on everything we purchased down to pencils. Previously we were given a class budget. As long as we did not go over the budget we were fine. Any major items like computers had to be approved.

It did not sit well and chapped my ass so much that my wife noticed a change in me. We sat down and decided in this stage in my life we just do not need this type of BS. The next day I went in and turned in my resignation letter effective immediately and stating the reasons. My department head with tears in her eyes fully understood. I never looked back.
Micro managing is not a good leadership trait. If you feel you have to micromanage there is a breakdown in the hiring process, training, and your assessment in personnel.
If you have a task that needs to be done you assess who you have in your workforce that has the capability to complete the task, empower them by letting them complete the task as they see fit within the training they are given.
Case in point as sergeant I needed to assign someone in charge of vehicle maintenance. In looking at my team I picked out the officer who took pride in the way his possessions looked, his house, cars, lawn. I asked him if he was willing to take on the task. He ran with it and I never had to think about it again. He scheduled the maintenance with the city shop, down to the tire rotations.
He took pride in the task and loved it. Yes he was on the side of OCD but that is putting the right person in to do a task.
Next is giving recognition of the work that is done well. We all need the recognition and shown appreciation that we are doing a good job.

I could go on and on but you get the idea how I stand on micromanagement.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

I dunno. I know a lot of people who stay in a job because of money, and they have no freedom and constantly micromanaged

No idea. But, know there’s several guys that continue to live in occupied states due to the job. You’d have to think that there are those who are trapped by money with little freedom or even satisfaction. That’s not valuing it, that’s longing for it.

As someone who worked in an occupied state and worked for a micromanager for a time, I resent that characterization of yours about longing for "little freedom or even satisfaction." Fuck you for that. We all don't get to choose the circumstances we find ourselves in. Do you think people in North Korea long for scraping tree bark just to make soup?

As someone asked you, who do you think in this forum doesn't want freedom in their work environment? I doubt many here are currently working as burger flippers in McDonalds or hourly workers in a factory where their bathroom time is even monitored.

I liked being giving jobs and goals and was expected to get them done without too much direction. I liked being trusted to keep it moving and to apprise my boss when I need more help or if there was a problem. I expected the same from my reports.

My last boss was a micromanager who kept switching my priorities hour by hour. At one point, he remarked, "I guess you could have finished the job sooner if I hadn't interrupted you." He also had me do an analysis only to find out he thought he was trying to show me something. I already knew it and have been pointing it out to him all along. I quit after six months without lining up another job. That was the last time I worked other than a year when someone reached out to me to help her. I worked for her for a year. At least, it took away the bad taste in my mouth from the previous job.

When I was finally able to, I did move to a free state.

Yeah, those North Koreans starving to death probably love their circumstances.

^ Isn't that exactly the OP's point, though? You valued your freedom enough to eventually quit that job and move to a free state. I don't think he's saying that anybody in that situation wants to be there...just do you value your freedom enough to give up that income and security to walk away from that situation for something new and better. Or to phrase it differently, how much are you willing to put up with before you decide "screw this" and move on to something else.

A new job or a move is always scary. You give up seniority and benefits, and possibly take a pay cut. And you're leaving the known for the unknown. I have four kids and a wife to provide for, and a medical condition that will require insurance to pay for medication and treatment for the rest of my life...I have to weigh that against my happiness at work, and the financial security that my job provides. Thankfully right now I'm in a position that aligns with my values...if that situation ever changes, I'm going to have to make some really hard decisions about what to do.

I made a thread recently about being way more likely to either ignore and disagree with leadership in my operational job.

I think this "freedom" is exactly what drives that. If you want to tell me exactly how to do it, you're welcome to do it.

The results are what I care about and what management or leadership should care about. How I get there is gonna be up to me, if you don't like it, put me somewhere else. I'm not gonna talk about it or negotiate.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
^ Isn't that exactly the OP's point, though?

When you think that voluntarily living in California, or some other liberal stronghold is just like living under lockdown in a communist regime and they are EXACTLY the same, probably not.

Why always with this parochial bullshit…

Hasn’t anybody learned that there’s one fucking party in control now; all across America.

Apparently DOJ, FBI, DHS, DNI were paying Twitter to meet with them weekly with secure access to classified documents.

How many other companies, e.g., Apple, Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc. etc. ad infinitum ad nauseam …

Tell us all how you’re doing better off than we in commie liberal shit holes?

Because apparently I’m actually happy.

So much so that I’m actually happy at work with this thing called freedom. and asked others if they were happy at work. And it has attracted those who apparently aren’t happy, offended by everything, and a lack of self control that they can’t help but crap on a thread about being happy because they aren’t happy.

I guess if they aren’t happy, no one is to be happy.

So, how am I doing better? I allow myself to be happy. I fix the problems I can, and don’t obsess about the rest.

I highly recommend it.

Rigggggghhhht … Very convincing lol.

Work is just a business arrangement. It's nothing more than that, so set expectations accordingly.

If it's no longer attractive to either party for any reason, then the arrangement ends.

I hope everyone keeps this in mind as they go to work. If you expect more than a business arrangement, then you might want to rethink things for the sake of mental wellbeing. Managers at any level who say "we're like a family here" or similar are pretty fucked up in my opinion.