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His Royal Hiney |
Forcing your finger to enable access is clearly coercion and a warrantless search. Your face is accessible to anyone sort of like your garbage in the sidewalk. That's my non-lawyer take. And as someone else say, it's the integrity of the law enforcement you're dealing with. "It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946. | |||
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Political Cynic |
If I recall a court ruled that the police could force you to unlock your phone with a thumbprint or with FaceID but they found not force you to give up a PIN code. I’d never use anything other than a PIN code on my phone. | |||
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| His Royal Hiney |
Did you know Border police in Canada have the right to examine the contents of visitors' cell phones outside of your presence? With a thumbprint, I could at least negotiate that I be present to ensure they don't access sensitive information such as finances that has nothing to do with visiting Canada. But, yeah, I take it that Canada falls under "bad areas." I did enable Face ID shortly after I got the phone up and running. At first, I thought I could do without it but I don't want to be inputting my code all the time. "It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946. | |||
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| His Royal Hiney |
That about sums it up nicely. When I read the posts and started swiping, I was reminded of "so easy, even a caveman could do it." But by myself, I would never have stumbled onto that. I started looking at the "user manual" but it was marketing fluff for quite a while so I gave up. "It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946. | |||
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| Thank you Very little  |
Ya dose Mounties, tough guys ya know, don't think they'll be coming to AZ though to get your phone, maybe on holiday, eh?  unless you make a wrong turn in Wickenburg and end up surprised you are on the Canada border, all you have to do is go into settings and turn off thumbprint and FaceID before you go, you might want to practice the code a few times though... | |||
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Go Vols! |
I like Face ID now. Fast and works fairly well. It sucked back when we had to wear masks though! I was really missing the thumbprint option then. | |||
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member |
None of the Face ID with mask options that Apple has tried have ever worked for me. When it comes time to pay, I just unhook my mask from one ear for 3 seconds. When in doubt, mumble | |||
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W07VH5 |
Squeeze the power and volume button until the emergency call screen shows up. Let go before the call starts. This will lock the phone and only allow it to be opened with the passcode. | |||
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| A teetotaling beer aficionado  |
Not a lawyer, but I see a distinction between random crap on the sidewalk and your face. While in most cases, it's not illegal to photograph or film someone in public, taking one's phone and using it for the express purpose of gaining access to private information without consent or probable cause seems like a slippery slope. Unless there's precedence or specific laws on the books, I think a sharp lawyer could ruffle some feathers with this. Again, not a lawyer, but I've watched Perry Mason and Judge Judy a lot. Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves. -D.H. Lawrence | |||
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I Deal In Lead |
Here's a lawyer's take. They can use your fingerprint or your face all they want to unlock your phone, but they can't force a passcode out of you. https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/ca...nlock%20your%20phone. Under the current law, police officers can require you to unlock your cellphone with facial recognition and fingerprint identification. However, police officers cannot require you to provide a pattern lock or a passcode/password to unlock your phone. When you unlock your phone with a passcode/password, you are demonstrating to the police officer that you have knowledge of what the passcode/password is. By inputting the information to unlock your cellphone, you are essentially saying without words: “I know what the lock code is.” A police officer cannot make you input your passcode/password to unlock your cellphone because doing so would force you to produce the contents of your mind. The Fifth Amendment protects against this type of self-incrimination. Alternatively, police officers can force you to use your face to unlock your cellphone because you are not disclosing any knowledge by simply holding the phone in front of your face. The same reasoning applies to fingerprint identification – police officers can force you to place your finger or thumb on the sensor to unlock your cellphone. These are nontestimonial acts which are not disclosing your knowledge. It is easy to think that the private information stored on your cellphone is secure if you have any type of lock in place. That may be true when it comes to the general public not having access to your cellphone information. However, even facial recognition or a fingerprint lock will not keep out police officers these days. Having a pattern lock or a passcode/password on your cellphone is the safest way to ensure that police officers cannot force you to unlock it. | |||
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| A teetotaling beer aficionado |
So, those that hate face ID because they feel it is less secure, are no better off with finger ID where the police are concerned and need to go back to using a pass code if it worries them. Me, it's just not a major issue and I'm not going to forgo the convenience of Face ID because I don't want the cops looking at the pictures of my kids and grandkids. This becomes lessor of an issue since I've never been detained by the police, save a few minor traffic stops. Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves. -D.H. Lawrence | |||
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Fire begets Fire |
Just take your phone out of the case, hold firmly in your strong hand, then throw it on the ground smashing the phone into bits, followed by grinding it with your heel of your boot. Good luck! "Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty." ~Robert A. Heinlein | |||
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| Thank you Very little |
Interesting, I never enacted the mask option they had instituted, thing is I can have my phone in the holder in the car or on the motorcycle, and If I lift the sunglasses it will recognize me and unlock, a great benefit over trying to input a code. I could look at it when going down the road and it will open.. | |||
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| His Royal Hiney |
That's the million dollar answer, right there! Thank you. "It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946. | |||
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Info Guru |
It really comes down to individual use case for the device. I'm sure if I had your use case, wearing body armor, bulky clothes and equipment, I would prefer a smaller form factor and probably not want my phone displayed on a body cam ever time I picked it up. However, for my use case I have to have the largest screen possible. I have to remote control my work PC and sometimes a server from my phone while I am mobile, be able to read spreadsheets and presentations, etc. I also use it extensively to look up information and communicate, not to mention watch videos and live stream games sometimes when I am out and about. I get the largest pro max screen available. I don't want my phone to be unlocked when I'm not looking at it, so opening as soon as I glance at it works very well for me. “Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” - John Adams | |||
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| A teetotaling beer aficionado |
That presupposes you have something very incriminating on your phone if you're going to smash it. Yeah, we all want our privacy and don't want people invading our personal digital space. I'm of the mind set that if you have nothing to hide, why trash your phone and draw more attention which will surly cause more probing by the evil cops. You've got to think out what happens next, which I can't imagine will be good. Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves. -D.H. Lawrence | |||
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| Fire begets Fire |
Really? I have to have something incriminating on my phone? I don’t think like that. I guess cops do. Maybe I’d rather spend the $$$ than let some goober get their gummy paws on it. I have all kinds of personal/private information on there that is certainly not incriminating. My banking, kids photos, taxes, contacts … etc etc. Laughing out loud! "Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty." ~Robert A. Heinlein | |||
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| A teetotaling beer aficionado |
Well okay, I kinda get that. Still, I don't lay awake at night worrying about this sort of minutia. I've had smart phones pretty much since they where introduce. I'm still alive and well. Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves. -D.H. Lawrence | |||
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| Fire begets Fire |
^^^ I get it. That post was just meant to be funny … OpSec you know  "Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty." ~Robert A. Heinlein | |||
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| A teetotaling beer aficionado |
Cool Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves. -D.H. Lawrence | |||
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