Ford done good and I don't want to send that thread off the rails. My question: while I am from the school of more is better with regard to horsepower and torque, is there a benefit to a 450 horsepower V8 in a serious off road vehicle like a Jeep Rubicon? Perhaps Baja/Desert Racing or the bog racing but in the really rough, slow crawl stuff does the big block work for or against you?

In the slow stuff, low end torque is your friend. A big block is one way of producing it. Big, heavy, knobby off-road tires need a lot of torque to turn them. There's other ways of achieving low end torque such as gear reduction and at times an automatic transmission can provide torque multiplication. The disadvantage to a big block in a rock crawler is weight and size.

I am not a serious off-roader but did a fair amount of it in dirt and mud in my younger years. The one thing I noticed is a V8 was smoother putting power to the wheels whereas a 4 cylinder was more jumpy and jerky. I really only remember this when using them to pull each other out. It’s probably less noticeable now since smaller engines seem to be outputting more than ever.

.45ACP, Why is it necessary when we have the .22LR?

Really...are you serious Clark?

" off road" is not a definition.
To me that means not on pavement

There is "off road"
In the sand, in the grass, in the field, in the flats , in the hills, in the creek, in the snow, muck and mire,

AZ had a lot of muddy covered rock,
The mid west has
9 kinds of loam in various states if moisture , with gradual and steep rolling hills
and then the famous Rock crawlers.

We saw tons of six cylinders in mid and compact four wheeler s, most did very well.

Power to weight ratio with the transmission constant thrown in there is where you want to start.

We had full size 3/4 ton pick ups w/ camping gear, so 351 motors were the standard,

The best tool you have when venturing off pavement is between your ears.

I don't qualify as a serious off roader but I have run Jeep Rubicons for 15 years. I don't think in recreational rock crawling you'd need the 450 HP but you'd appreciate it. I've done some pretty gnarly trails, used the lockers quite a bit, both the in-line 6 and the V6 have done well, Jeeps are geared pretty well.

Doesn't the new rubicon only come in a 4cyl?

I'm not serious anymore. In my younger years I ran Chevy 1/2 tons with 350ci engines, they had headers, cams and carbs, usually 4spd w/crawler gear trannys. I broke stuff, I fixed stuff. Now I have a 00 Jeep XJ, stock (rear torq locker) with a 3 inch lift and 31 inch tires, as it rusts I will cut the wheel wells out and stuff 33 inch tires in there. I usually don't even use four wheel drive anymore, but it's there. I have the six cylinder engine, a four cylinder doesn't have the power to turn the tires (unless you regear). I also pull lighter stuff, boat, SxS, four wheelers. My set up is fine for my use, hunting, fishing, general woods road riding. If I ever went back to real mudding (not happening), I'd have a V8 of some kind, with mud you need power/momentum to get through... Most of the people I know are building Jeep Wranglers with the straight 6, lockers,and have winches (they use them regularly.

Back in high school, I had a CJ7 with a 304 V8 and my buddy had a '69 Bronco with a 302 V8.

We were driving around in a subdivision that was being developed, the roads had just been paved. He got stuck and slid down to the bottom of a hill up against a tree. I, in my infinite 17 year old wisdom, tried to pull him out and wound up right next to him such that I had to unzip the driver's side door to make room for his passenger side mirror.

Another friend lived across the road from the subdivision. He pulled us out with a 2 cylinder 22hp Cub Cadet garden tractor. He had a really long rope and was on the pavement.

I can't find it right now, but I've got a picture of a 200hp 4 cylinder engine that's taller than my son who is standing next to it. It's 200hp at 75 rpm and it literally produces a boat load of torque because it came from a tug boat.

Torque gets things moving.

now that you mention it,
the term "serious"

can be construed about five different ways , as well

450 HP & 450 torque is pretty impressive.
It isn’t *necessary* but damn sure would be fun!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: KMitch200,

Serious, you need a dedicated rig. I know people big into it. They don’t use their daily drivers for this kind of fun. Each has a dedicated vehicle, and each is modded. Few are going to take their brand new expensive truck, or SUV, and start crawling in it where you can bump, scrape, scratch, etc. And whomever above said it, off road there is so many times. Light trails, light gravel, water/river, to rock crawling. Then there is elevation. All depends on what you are doing. I can tell you most with the expensive rigs here at most go camping and drive it on light dirt which is damn near paved to me. They buy something like the new Bronco, get the hardcore 4x4 model of it, then drive it through Chick Fil A and park it at the mall. It’s an image thing. The guys I know real into off-roading drive some knarly shit that isn’t something they’d drive to the office where they make their money.

It's about the torque. The HP can help but when you're moving under 4 MPH, you want that pull.

A recent post from one of my off-roading groups. See the comment below the picture.

quote:

Originally posted by Shaql:
Doesn't the new rubicon only come in a 4cyl?

While a 2.0 l turbo is offered most will come standard with a 3.6l V6.

But if it’s torque you want then go for the 3.0L turbo diesel with something like 440 lb/ft of torque

I started Jeeping in a very used CJ2 1945 model.

Stock mil.surplus, it was heaven for a couple broke high schoolers. We learned 'bare knuckle skinny tire pre-winch off-roading universal mil.tread' tactics in the 1959-60-61 era where breaking down or getting stuck (really stuck) mean a LONG walk back to pavement. SW Idaho high desert-primarily Owyhee County) just as the dirt bike craze was gearing up. There's some awfully funny stories too long to tell here, that happened in/near town as well.

Those skinny tires crossed every continent on the planet a few year previously, and did so with about 60 hp of the mighty 4-banger.

It conveyed us to school, to work, to dates, etc. Whatever the HP/torque was, it got us out of every dumb mistake it ever got us into in back country. A rescue tow truck was required only twice.

Our outdoor experience was enhanced by every journey we survived, and I don't see how any aspect of that time could have been enhanced with any version of upgrades & horsepower our low budget world.

Later, VW beetles revisited nearly every Jeep place we discovered, and dirt bikes eventually came to replace them. You can create your own off-road experience but it's a different flavor these days.