I trained a whole team of Indians to basically replace my position in Irving, TX. Citibank, (which if you didn't know is a disgusting company that got bailed out and continues to push leftist anti American nonsense.)

Go to Plano, TX and it feels like a foreign country. Indians here living in houses that Americans should be living in for subsidized money, doing jobs Americans should be doing for less pay, with a list of free things I have to pay for that will make your blood boil. They bring their entire extended family here, and it's my understanding Rick Perry is who we can thank for that, in TX.

I don't understand why the mighty dollar would make companies sell out the American. It's beyond my scope of understanding and one more set of people drilling holes in the boat that is this country.

If Trump gets it done, dam he already is my favorite president.

Do you think if the companies can't bring these workers here, they won't just hire them in India, where they can pay them even less, and move the work over there?

Solid question and I think depending on the position it can go either way.

What will happen if they aren't here, is middle class Americans getting shafted and low class Americans getting robbed of opportunities these companies offer. Traffic will go down, and taking a walk down the bike trail in Plano TX won't look like Mumbai. Landlords homes won't be infested with curry smell and 20 people living there and the lines at Wal Mart and everywhere else will be a lot shorter. Traffic way less, hospitals and emergency care begins to open up, and schools good lord.

Trump is trying. This is why Tech hates his guts - H1B and IT off-shoring (job exportation) is their gravy train.

Fraud among H1B? Yup. My own former Indian origin programmer told me how it works at a reunion lunch (we all had our jobs taken - exported to I land). They lie on their resume, get the job and then access the secret Indian H1B help network in how to do stuff; software / system specific.

Being reduced to contract work, if I can get it, at 1995 wages not adjusted for inflation, I had to deal with these drones, on-shore and off-shore, telling them how to do their job. Talk about serious depression. I'd rather work at a home depot than work for IT minimum wage having to provide consultant level support to these clowns for the place I am contracting at.

Too much money, so I expect no reform unless the immigration spigot is turn off like it was in 1922 - which enabled African-American to finally get well paying northern factory jobs.Even then the off-shore aspect has to be turned off too.

I'm somewhat lucky in that I can give the corporate world the finger like they gave me the finger 3 years ago. I can live with a home depot job if need be. I was smart when I had a six figure salary for the last 5 years before getting the finger at 56. Not enough to fully retire at 56, but enough to take the hit and not end up in a tent under a bridge.

Anyway, I am all for a full nuclear exchange between China and India over the top of the world border dispute. Win-win for me at least.

H1B is horribly abused.

While we (most of us) are against more government, I would be glad to see some oversight. Before approving an H1B worker, there should be proof that

• there are no American workers available why are qualified to do the job, and
  
  
• the H1B individual being considered, is actually qualified to do the job.

At one point most of my coworkers on my team were Indians on H1B's who got graduate degrees in US schools. They were good people for the most part, not not always as qualified as I would like. We do corporate level manufacturing and industrial engineering, most of which is not actually taught in schools - at least not the stuff you need to know to do it right. It's rather product specific so I don't know if any of the previous mentioned help networks exist.

The funny thing about an H1B is that it is for a specific job role and the company has to make a case that there were no other applicants available for that role who were more qualified. And that is the biggest lie of the whole system. When an Industrial Engineer teammate was given responsibility for a Mechanical Engineering subject, technically he was non-compliant with his visa, since no case had been made that there was a shortage of people in that area or that he was specially qualified (he was certainly not).

Then came the head scratchers:

"304 SS, that's a carbon steel, right?" No, it's a mild non-hardenable weldable stainless steel. The SS at the end means stainless steel.

"So, mass flow and pressure decay leak testing are the same thing?" No they are completely different, one uses a mass flow sensor to measure air flow into the part at constant pressure equating to any leaks, the other fills the part to a given pressure, then isolates it and correlates the pressure drop with a leak rate. "So they are still just two different ways of describing the same thing". No, do you remember PV=RT in your year of college level chemistry? [Blank look].

Then there was the former coworker that was brought over here on an L visa (company sponsored green card for managers essential to business). He didn't have any direct reports in India, and when he came over, they assigned two people to work for him. One person got laid off within a few months and the manager continued for another 1.5 years with one direct report. Eventually he lost that one too, so they kept giving him all the interns and new-hire rotational kids. After a while I realized, his title is manager and if he doesn't have anyone to manage he is non-compliant with his visa.
My ex wife was an admissions director at a graduate business school (state university) and every application and essay from India was basically the same. They all had canned answers to the interview questions too. The essays of course were copied from sharing websites and modified for the individual, and the interview questions were distributed by other candidates in a similar fashion. So the goal of the interview was to throw ringers and see how they reacted, so you can weed out the scripted answers.

Herein lies the problem:

We are dealing with another culture that has a completely different set of values. The concept of being honest and truthful on a resume or writing your own application essay or answering questions honestly and not scripting the "best" answers is "normal" to me. I would never think to do what these candidates do, and it never even occurred to me applying for college, grad school, or any job.

But now you have Americans competing against a culture that embellishes everything so much, honesty makes you look under-qualified. And many managers and HR people do not realize this is what is happening. If India was such a land of highly intelligent and qualified people, the country would not be the total cluster fuck that it is. I've been there a few times, I know.

Here are some examples of job titles in India:

Engineering Manager - new hire engineer
Executive Engineering manager - couple years experience
Deputy General Manager - has a direct report
Executive General Manager - a normal manager job

Everything is title inflated to absurdity.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
We are dealing with another culture that has a completely different set of values.

This sums it up exactly. Any example I've seem ultimately goes back to that fundamental.

On a small scale with leadership and mentoring you might be able to correct it. But companies don't even try.

I will say majority of the Indians I had experience with were super nice people and very kind etc.

That said, they fake the funk like professionals. They were making their way through the title world just parroting things they saw. So blatantly incompetent and ineffective. They throw terms at the wall to see if it sticks. They were good at mirroring processes, but the personal decision making wasn't there because there was no basic understanding. This put the real work onto others, attorneys, bank managers, etc. The Indians basically got paid to make others do the work that the position they filled required.

They even gave themselves American names like Sarah. Sarah my ass. Real name is 15 letters long, just the first name.

I'm thinking more economics. If the jobs are here, then the tax money stays here. Even if they send money back, they're still spending it here, so they're generating a good amount of economic activity. If the jobs go to Bangalore, that all goes away.

I did corporate IT for almost thirty years. So I dealt with this. Most of the ones I knew weren't looking to go back. They'd love to get citizenship and stay. They also were pretty good (the better ones are ones that usually end up here.) They're educated and pretty motivated. Cultural issues aside, there the type of people we want coming here (as opposed to the ones just jumping the border.)

quote:

Originally posted by Slippery Pete:
Solid question and I think depending on the position it can go either way.

What will happen if they aren't here, is middle class Americans getting shafted and low class Americans getting robbed of opportunities these companies offer. Traffic will go down, and taking a walk down the bike trail in Plano TX won't look like Mumbai. Landlords homes won't be infested with curry smell and 20 people living there and the lines at Wal Mart and everywhere else will be a lot shorter. Traffic way less, hospitals and emergency care begins to open up, and schools good lord.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
I'm thinking more economics. If the jobs are here, then the tax money stays here. Even if they send money back, they're still spending it here, so they're generating a good amount of economic activity. If the jobs go to Bangalore, that all goes away.

I did corporate IT for almost thirty years. So I dealt with this. Most of the ones I knew weren't looking to go back. They'd love to get citizenship and stay. They also were pretty good (the better ones are ones that usually end up here.) They're educated and pretty motivated. Cultural issues aside, there the type of people we want coming here (as opposed to the ones just jumping the border.)

quote:

Originally posted by Slippery Pete:
Solid question and I think depending on the position it can go either way.

What will happen if they aren't here, is middle class Americans getting shafted and low class Americans getting robbed of opportunities these companies offer. Traffic will go down, and taking a walk down the bike trail in Plano TX won't look like Mumbai. Landlords homes won't be infested with curry smell and 20 people living there and the lines at Wal Mart and everywhere else will be a lot shorter. Traffic way less, hospitals and emergency care begins to open up, and schools good lord.

It's a good argument. I would say if Americans weren't pushed out for them to be here then the tax dollars would still be here, and probably more of them and being spent by American citizens who weren't put out by being undercut. Would they just send the jobs to India, well I'm sure some of them so I can't really say where the rubber meets the road on that point.

I see plenty of unemployed and underemployed Americans even right before covid and these lower-mid level positions at least at the banks were a place they could go to improve their quality of life. Now that quality of life is handed to foreigners, and not just the job their healthcare and housing, and lots of other programs they get subsidized.

The H1B visa humans I've seen are not more qualified, they were in fact much less qualified than those they replaced. So it leaves me questioning why the hell are they here? And to see the effect in Plano traffic really drives it home.