Looking help advise family member on resurrecting a 57 Bel Air. I’m a long time member of Chevytalk.org and have posted the question there as well.

The old Powerglide needs upgrading. Looking at the TH350, 200r4 or 700r4. The 350 would be the easiest because it’s essentially the next version of the PG. The 200 looks to be the least complicated upgrade over the 700. M

This would be paired with a rebuilt 327 and four barrel Edlebrock. Hoping to reuse the original column shifter.

Lots of info online but am hoping for personal experience.

Thanks

I've busted knuckles on all three. A '56 was my
everyday for almost 20 years.
The 200 and 700 would be same swap, but scratch the 200 (weak). The 700 is an overdrive T350 but you get lower first gear and ovoverdrive. For the swap you need a crossmember for any above. A 69 camaro crossmember is perfect fit, maybe others.
Then if your still useing front motor mounts you'll need to buy or make mounts from bellhousing to frame. Original would have mounts part of bellhousing. Or use side motor mount kit and eliminate front mounts.
I used front mounts and bellhousing mounts and crossmember. Next if you chose T700 you'll need and aftermarket controller for lockup converter.
For T700 the lockup control is inexpensive its basically a pressure switch.
So the T350 would be the simplest .
If your gonna make some power get a T400 or its overdrive brother 4L80E.
I'd go with 4speed muncie or 4L80E.

Also if the car still has the original ball bearing wheel bearings scrap them. Buy a set of inner and outer wheel bearings for a 1965 impala and you'll get some tapered roller bearing that will be a direct swap. But you still use 57 inner oil seal.

68-72 chevelle front spindles will fit your ball joints if you want an easy front disc brake set-up.
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This message has been edited. Last edited by: Greymann,

Go with a strong built 350. Avoid the 200. If you plan to run it hard, go 400

Greymann is correct. 200-4R can be reworked to handle higher hp, in stock form it will not last long. 700R4, two versions. MD8, cable 4L60E, electronic controlled.

MD8 is a good transmission BUT the detent cable adjustment is very important for correct shifting and transmission life. Very early transmissions 1982-1984 were junk IMO, I worked in dealer parts departments back then, made a lot of money off those in parts sales. The later 4L60E is an electronically controlled version, GM Performance Parts also markets a 4L65E, a beefed up version of it. Both will need en electronic controller to regulate shifting, also might depending on the one you use have another problem as some of those use electronic pulse for electronic speedometers instead of mechanical (cable) drive.

TH 350 is the easiest swap, driveshaft length should be fine with a input yoke change, the stock PG is a coarse spline, TH 350 is a fine spline.

Engine mounts, area of debate for years. Some guys use the original front engine mounts from the four point mounting, eliminating the side mounts and just use a rear crossmember to mount the transmission at the tailshaft. That puts a lot of strain on the bellhousing, a cast aluminum part. Using side mounts on the engine together with the rear crossmember is fine. For example, if you use the stock front two mounts and remove the transmission the engine will tilt extremely to the rear. Think of the strain you are putting on those two outboard mounts. Now if you use side mounts and remove the transmission the engine will still tilt back some but not as severe as with the front mounts, those are more or less centered on the engine. So now visualize the strain on the transmission case, the downward force at the center where the engine bolts to the transmission. This can lead to cracked cases and if not caught more physical strain on the transmission front pump housing and bushings, not good.

The TH 350 swap would be the easiest, someone makes a sidemount kit to mount that transmission to the factory rear sidemounts, if you are going to use the front mounts (original) below the water pump at the front of the block I would find a set. If memory is correct it only takes some modifications on the steering column tube to allow for the shifter to be able get into Low gear. Someone also makes a shift quadrant for the TH 350, try some of the Chevy parts suppliers.

Muncie 4 speed, good choice, same length with bellhousing as the TH 350. Drawback is that original pieces are getting harder to find but aftermarket sources are making new gear sets, cases, about all the parts you need to put one together. I'm faced with the same problem, I need to build a replacement for the one in my 67 2+2 Pontiac, I have acquired the hard to find mainshaft and tailshaft, those for the full size Pontiacs are 6.5" longer than the regular Muncie because of the longer wheelbase.

Done a bunch of those over the years also.

Shovelhead, I may have some muncie parts.
I'll check this week and let you know.

.

If I was going to do a swap, I'd go with a 700r4 for the overdrive. The only thing you're gaining with a TH350 is shorter 1st gear, 3rd gear is the same ratio/rpm's as the powerglide you're replacing. I believe there are several companies that sell kits to do that swap.

Had a SBC street/strip 56 chevy for 15 years. I used the TH 350 with the long 9-inch tailhousing out of a 2wd truck it is simple setup and lets you run a shorter driveline. The shorter the driveline is the better, for many reasons. Those 700r4 were ok for stock stuff but the one I was around in drag racing back in the day would not stand up to abuse very good. Even so called "built" ones.

"Hoping to reuse the original column shifter" Be very careful here if the column shifter detents you use do not match transmission detents exactly you can damage the transmission in a short time frame.

Stay away from the 700r4, they are complete garbage!

350 would be my pick.

Sorry now help from me, but best of luck to you.

When the original 3 speed manual went on on my '56 it was "fun" figuring it out, all in all not bad though. I wonder if the internet would have made it easier or a lot harder. Sometime too much information is just as puzzling. But it was 1988 so not an option.

IMO the Turbo 400 is thge best choice. I drag raced for 45 years and the Turbo 400 is one tough transmission.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:
Stay away from the 700r4, they are complete garbage!

350 would be my pick.

700 R4 in my Suburban towing puked, replaced it after the second 700 R4 rebuild with the TH 400. So, if torque is involved, the TH 400 is the tranny, IMO.

The 700R4 will handle whatever power a 327 will put out......A friend of mine drag raced with his well into the low 11's in the 1/4 in a 1993 trans am, and it held together, all he changed was the stall converter. Now, I wouldn't be putting a 700r4 behind a big block.......but I would behind a small block. What's the advantage of swapping the powerglide? your final gear is still 1:1, so you get first gear, with the right stall converter the power glide is generally faster. I'd rather have overdrive and 4 gears if I was going to do the swap, or just put a good stall converter in front of the power glide.

Thanks for the replies. I’ll compile the pros and cons.

I’m leaning toward either the 200-4R or 700R4 from Bow tie Overdrives.

The 200-4R doesn’t require changing the driveline.

I’m discovering it may require changing the motor mounts, but I think that’s only if you skip a new cross member.

We’re ditching the Powerglide because it’s just a two speed and we’re interested in simple daily driving and cruising. Absolutely no drag racing or track days.

I have a 200-4r behind a 427ci sbc. A well built one will hold up quite well. Mine came from California Performace Transmissions (owned by Art Carr). The TV cable adjustment must be done correctly, otherwise you're good to go.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:... What's the advantage of swapping the powerglide? your final gear is still 1:1, so you get first gear, with the right stall converter the power glide is generally faster....

The gearing of a Powerglide will make 60 foot times suck, no matter what RPM you launch. (1.76 or 1.81) Like dropping the hammer in second, and with a 327 in a heavy Chevy (Tri-5 car) weighing in about 3500 lbs as it drives.

If you have lots of torque, you will not dead hook, but will likely suffer wheel spin, if you don't have a lot of torque, even with a higher stall, the car will fall on it's face on launch.

Back in the "old days" guys used slipper clutches, or "controlled" (peddling) wheelspin to launch. Once the instant and dead hook became the "norm" then gear ratios, stall converters and such that provided full traction, no wheel spin and much faster 60 foot times, lower ET and higher trap MPH, a 2 speed was counterproductive. In 1/8 mile racing, and cars of specific class of bracket racing, a 2 speed can still be beneficial.

Trying to drive a 327 with a converter that stalls at 3000 RPM (for it to be effective with a PG and best launch) will be a slug to drive in stop and go traffic and most annoying.

If it is happy as a cruiser and never going to see any thrashing, then a PG will be just fine.

The OP's 327 is able to run with the 200/700 or a TH400. The 400 will eat a good deal of HP (40-50 parasitic loss). Unless one is really banging on it, the 200 would be fine.

And the OD is the payoff to all of the choices.

Given the cost and work to put in later transmission, another good alternative would be a TREMEC swap. The TKO500 provides about a 3.27 first gear (wide ratio), and the TKO600 is 2.87 (close ratio) and the 600 would be a better application for the 327. Both will handle all the 327 could ever throw at it. But the total cost will likely be around $3500 for transmission, clutch, bell housing, pedals and hydraulic clutch or mechanical Z-Bar linkage.

But who doesn't like a pedal car?

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
Now, I wouldn't be putting a 700r4 behind a big block.......but I would behind a small block.

I like doing things right the FIRST time.

A 700R4 will NOT hold up behind a small block Chevy 350.

OP, save yourself some headaches and do some research on the 700R4 before you decide to use one.

quote:

Originally posted by Greymann:
Shovelhead, I may have some muncie parts.
I'll check this week and let you know.

.

Thank you Greymann!
BTW, where in NM are you at? I lived in Socorro for nine years, late 70's through the late late 80's.

Russ59 did not say which Powerglide is in his car. If he has the cast iron version that is a whole different animal from the aluminum cased one.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
Now, I wouldn't be putting a 700r4 behind a big block.......but I would behind a small block.

I like doing things right the FIRST time.

A 700R4 will NOT hold up behind a small block Chevy 350.

OP, save yourself some headaches and do some research on the 700R4 before you decide to use one.

I used to drag race considerably for well over a decade. A 700r4 is plenty sufficient without issues for a 327. It was standard equipment behind 300HP LT-1 motors in vettes and z28's and I've seen it hold up to 400-450HP cars with an additional 150HP shot of NOS without any problems with a little work done to it (stall converter and shift kit). Slap it behind a big block in a heavy suburban and hook a travel trailer behind that and it's a different story.

 
Heh, I stayed with the original "3 on the tree" in my rebuild 'wagon. I love standard transmissions, and to this day have never owned an automatic. The '56 (daily driver for 12 years) required a complete stop (or some fancy clutch work) to shift into first. Currently I drive a 2010 Taco with a 5 speed.