Rights

No - it's your house - you can do whatever you want with it. If you invite others over to your house, they are bound by your rules.

VS Respect.

I would advise following your own rules.
I have always thought people that who Do as I say not as I do, are hypocrites.

None of us are perfect. We all have bad days.

This is still the only place on the internet I am on daily.

It is your forum, your rules.

But do as I say, not as I do?

Isn't that what the current administration in D.C. is doing?

"Because I said so" quit working on me about 50 years ago.

Funny thing is that I didn’t think para’s response was disrespectful. Nobody here wants to be complimentary to the douchebag who happens to be president. It is tantamount to saying while Hitler was a bad guy, his personal hygiene was impeccable. Clearly not the place to say that. The poster was told that and jhe took offense on an insult where it felt more like a mild and obvious correction.

I think the response to para was more disrespectful than pointing out we don’t care that you like Biden’s tailor.

Para, hands down you run the fairest and best forum on the web. I've not participated as much as I would like to due to macular degeneration (the keys float around on the keyboard). As for how you 'run' this forum -- 11 out of 10.
You do not need my permission to do as you will: It's yours and you keep it sane...relevant and a pleasure to log onto. Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by CEShooter:
Only upon sustained criticism or rule breaking would I personally show a friend or equal to the door.

Who in this matter has been shown the door?

To my knowledge nobody has been shown the door regarding the Ray Ban thread. My response was intended solely as a response to the question about a man being bound by the rules of his house.

Neither jhe nor you had asked for my opinion of that specific back and forth so I didn’t want to interject anything about that.

quote:

Originally posted by ulsterman:
It is your forum, your rules.

But do as I say, not as I do?

Isn't that what the current administration in D.C. is doing?

Good grief. Congratulations. You managed to interject politics into this thread. That's just fucking brilliant.

You're comparing me to Joe Biden? Do you have any idea how ridiculous this is? For you to take this thread and turn it into Washington politics? Ridiculous and completely unnecessary. That's the best you can do?

And members sometimes wonder why there is a clear dividing line between political and apolitical threads in this forum. It's for exactly and I do mean exactly these kinds of asinine comments.

quote:

"Because I said so" quit working on me about 50 years ago.

Then, you have a real problem here, don't you? Because that is how things are around here. You will follow my directives or you will leave.

Anything else you want to say to me?

And let's gets something straight, guys, and I have said this quite a few times over the years: No member of this forum need ever say "Your house, your rules."

Usually, when a member says this, what they mean is "The only reason I am complying is because I have no choice" and it's usually said at a time when they want to balk, but know they can't. It's kinda insulting, actually.

Even in this thread, dealing with the rules of this place, there is no need to state the obvious. The subject of this thread is not "My house, my rules." The subject is, am I bound by the rules I set.

Clearing throat nervously.

No. A man can alter, remove , or disregard rules he set forth in his domain without justification as he sees the need.

I Really hope everyone is well and that us as a Nation will make it through these times. Pretty crazy times when a senile guy with a particular pair of shades gets us at each other. No disrespect intended. Hray

quote:

Originally posted by hray:
Clearing throat nervously.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
The subject is, am I bound by the rules I set.

Clearly only if you wish to be.

quote:

Originally posted by hray:
Clearing throat nervously.

{places shotgun in lap}

quote:

Pretty crazy times when a senile guy with a particular pair of shades gets us at each other.

I did try to calm things down, and I did so quite gently, but Ward had to have a talk with The Beav.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
When you get a chance to respond, CEShooter, I have several more questions for you. I'm looking forward to your responses.

Judging by your signature line, I imagine you have no trouble holding your own.

Ask away. ChatGPT and I will do our best to answer any questions you have.

"Any man who pokes the eagle, spends the night in the hole."

I look at it like this: The wife and I make our kids take their shoes off when they get home and not wear them around the house. However, when I get home, I will often leave my shoes on and walk to wherever they all are to discuss dinner plans. On the face of it, this seems very much a case of 'do as I say, not as I do.' However, the reason I don't consider it to be so is that, ultimately, the house is mine and I am responsible for it, not the kids. Keeping the house clean, dealing with any damage from tracking in mud, repairing scratches in the wood: these are all things that are ultimately my job to deal with...well, the wife and I, but you get the idea. Since I am the one responsible for taking care of the place, it is up to me to decide what risks to take and which ones to avoid. I know precisely what I am doing when I walk across the house in my shoes, and if it causes any problems they will be my problems and no on else's.

I can't be there to make those same evaluations for the kids, so I set rules for them instead. There would very likely be situations where I would let my kids leave their shoes on in the house if I was there to supervise and make sure I agreed with the decision. In fact, I've done exactly that. However, I can't be there all the time, and don't want to be consulted every time someone enters the house, so I set rules that may be more restrictive than necessary, but that minimize potential problems.

This forum is Para's job, responsibility, whatever you want to call it. He can't possibly preview every post before it goes up, so he has to set rules that minimize problems. Does that mean he must follow those rules himself? No, because the problems that breaking the rules might cause are his problems to deal with, and ultimately the rules themselves are just an imperfect reflection of the decisions he would make if it were possible to review every situation himself. If he drops politics in a thread that isn't political, its because it is a situation where doing so isn't going to cause the sort of problems that the rule is in place to prevent. He doesn't generally break the rules arbitrarily. If he does break the rules, it is because he has decided that the harm the rule is in place to prevent isn't going to be an issue in that particular instance. Like any of us, he may end up being wrong from time to time and end up wishing he had followed his own rules, but that doesn't seem to be what happens most of the time.

FWIW, I've had one or two admonishments from the boss. I wasn't ever happy about them, but I accept that this is his place, and I am just a guest so I shut my mouth and move on. Biting my tongue can be difficult, but I wouldn't want someone to ignore me in my own home if I asked them to change their behavior, so I try not to treat others that way. The golden rule and all that.

- Bret

"Is a man bound by the rules he sets in his house?"

You (Para) answered that, and I agree with you. I think you are fair.

The rules can be dynamic, as they should be. That's why the constitution has amendments. But you and only you are the arbiter here. And why shouldn't you be?! (I think you've explained that as well).

quote:

Originally posted by synthplayer:

First pornographic statement uttered on TV: "Ward, I think you were a little hard on the Beaver last night."

LMAO !

quote:

Originally posted by CEShooter:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
When you get a chance to respond, CEShooter, I have several more questions for you.

Ask away. ChatGPT and I will do our best to answer any questions you have.

To expedite this, I'll take a different approach than I planned originally, which was to take the form of a Q&A in which, chances are, you wouldn't know the As to the Qs, and I would then supply them.

quote:

Originally posted by CEShooter:
First, your house your rules. That is an absolute fact.

Yeaaaaah. See above. Never does this need to be said.

quote:

After that how you enforce those rules reflects how you view your guests in your house. If you view them as friends or equals I would imagine that would open the door to initial critique or criticism in both directions. Only upon sustained criticism or rule breaking would I personally show a friend or equal to the door.

Rhetorically, I will ask the following: At what point do members of this forum become my friends? Is it when they first register, but have not yet posted? Is it after their first post? Is it after the first post in which they make a kind overture to me or to the forum in general? Is it after they've been here a specific amount of time or have a certain number of posts? Is it when I express a personal interest in a particular member?

Whatever the case, what form does this friendship take? Are we chatting on the phone at intervals? Do we have each other over at our respective residences? Do our spouses know each other? Do we take family trips together? Do we confide in each other on a sincere level, revealing hopes, dreams, regrets and the like?

The same sorts of questions can be asked when speaking of members here being viewed as my equal, and when you say "If you view them as friends or equals I would imagine that would open the door to initial critique or criticism in both directions," this means that whenever a member has reached the threshold determined to make them my friend or my equal, I am then obligated to receive and accept criticism of this forum and, I suppose, of myself in tolerant fashion.

This seems to make a mockery of friendship. Friendship- true friendship- is for most people in this world a rare thing. We have acquaintances, mostly, and authentic friendship is something that does not come along with membership in an online discussion forum. I cannot extend friendship to every person who register for this forum; no one could do that.

You spoke as well of equals, and this chafes particularly, because the underlying suggestion here is that if I apply firmly the rules and guidelines I have established as a means to maintain order in this place, well then, I must be looking down on members, treating them as underlings. Really, that does seem to be the underlying message, and I have to tell you, I resent it. Again I ask- when is a member of this forum my equal? When they register? When they post? When they've been here a certain length of time or have a certain number of posts?

I can give you the answers to these questions: In the virtual world or in the real world, a person is my friend when I know them well enough and like them well enough and care enough to call them my friend, which- surprise- makes me like most people in this world.

I consider a person my equal when I know them well enough to have seen how they conduct themselves in a variety of situations, and when I deem that behavior to be roughly in accordance with my own. If a person turns out to be a crook or a frequent liar or generally unethical or abusive of their spouse or children- no, that person is not my equal. By the same token, there are people I have met who reveal themselves to be such excellent examples of humanity- by dint of their profound intelligence or the degree of honor they exhibit or their purity of heart and other noble attributes- these people are not my equal; they are my betters, and I thank God that such people exist, and as far as I'm concerned, so should we all.

Y'see, I felt the need to explain this because you decided that my willingness to accept criticism about this forum, or about me personally, is predicated on my treating all members here as friends and/or equals, and since I am entirely unwilling to tolerate criticism of this forum, and I am rarely open to personal criticism (mainly in the form of how I run this place), then this must mean that I am dismissive of members, or that I look down upon members. This is not true and this is not fair, for all the reasons I have given.

I have friends in this forum.

I have equals in this forum.

My betters- they, too, are present in this forum.

I am a man, as flawed as most, and I'll not have the way I choose to run this place tied to the question of whether or not I am a cold-hearted snob, and the way you phrased your comments does exactly that- it ties my humanity to specific conditions in a specific place, and that is simply not fair. In a venue such as this, we view each other through the narrow aperture of a drinking straw. I cannot see all of you and you cannot see all of me.

quote:

However, this place is a public forum and not a house. You create the space but the members are the ones that are the difference between this being a forum and it being your personal blog. I would imagine that a mutual respect should exist for both sides.

Again, this is something which never need be pointed out to me. I have made this very same statement to the members over the years, acknowledging the undeniable truth of it. At the same time, though, this statement of plain fact ignores the reverse; this forum pays back to its loyal members by its very existence. If it weren't here, there would be no choice for the members, as to leaving or staying. It's a two way street.

I would not blame you if after all of this, you were left with the impression that I am unhappy with you, but this is not so. I did, however, feel the need to seize upon the points you made in your post, in order to make these points to the membership at large.

The last point I wish to make is that though in my younger days- my salad days, as Shakespeare might say- I was brash and impetuous, I feel as if I have matured into all I will ever be in places such as this forum. As a result, I don't step on members in a casual manner. I don't ban members without thought. I don't discipline members in anger, nor ban them in anger. If a member really cares about a forum and the friends they have made in it, it is a genuine drag to be banned. The same goes for temporary suspensions, and in this forum, almost all temporary suspensions occur publicly and no one should ever think that I am not aware of how frustrating or embarrassing such a thing can be. I do none of this lightly.

Lastly, I'd like to point out something- I feel there is great value in people like myself, who speak plainly and pull no punches. You never have to wonder where I am coming from. You never have to wonder if my remarks are sincere. I don't say this to puff myself up as something special; I say this because I believe it is the truth. The world needs people who use a broadsword to cut through the bullshit.

It’s your house, your rules and you must do what you feel you need to do in your own house.

Like raising children, you impose rules that you may or may not follow all the time, but sometimes setting the example is the best lesson, and sometimes, dropping the hammer is the best lesson.

If you need to violate the rules you have set to keep order, then do what you must do.

quote:

Originally posted by 95flhr:
It’s your house, your rules...

OK, I know it's buried in this thread, but I am asking you guys to stop saying this. Everyone knows it's my house. Everyone knows it's my rules. This is not the question, and this has been said so many times over all the years of this forum, and I am so tired of hearing this, I cannot even begin to tell you.

Please have mercy. Please stop saying this. It's beyond pointless.

I'd like to find the first guy who ever said this in a web forum and plant my foot in their ass, because he started a cliche for the ages.

As my dad used to say, “do as I say, not as I do”, which I did t understand as a kid, but do more so now.

You are fair and just o the forum, but there are times when you have to bend the rules to keep order and sanity here.

I like it here. I enjoy my time here. I post when and where I think I can contribute in a relevant way.

Most of us know what's expected of us here. Adhere to those expectations or go away-either voluntarily or involuntarily.

You've admonished me, on rare occasions in the past for whatever reason. You were not rude, condescending or otherwise harsh. You simply stated what you felt needed to be stated. It wasn't personal nor did I take it that way.

As to whether the rules you impose on the forum at large apply to you as owner or administrator?

No, and for the exact same reasons no different than rules you would impose on someone visiting your physical home.

Love this place. Have zero problems with how it is run. To the contrary, it is the consistency with which this forum is run that fosters my affection for it.