Here's another newspiece on what made me start the thread:

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Originally posted by FenderBender:

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Originally posted by PowerSurge:

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Originally posted by airsoft guy:

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Originally posted by RAMIUS:
So....how bout that weed?

It's da debil.

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Originally posted by PowerSurge:
The legalization of pot would only give more tax dollars to a government that has proven time and time again that they WILL NOT spend that money wisely.

The logical question is: Why give them more money/power?

I'm impressed at that bit of gymnastics.

Call it what you want, but true Conservatives want smaller government. The only way to achieve that is through less taxes.

so what if we legalize and don't tax? then we just get less government.

Not gonna happen.

^^^ That depends. Are we talking about legalizing a commercially available product? Then you're probably right. Are we talking about legalizing growing at home and trading? Then not only are you probably wrong, but home-grown marijuana has been a tax-free way to pay for products and services in Northern California for some decades now.

I don't see how legalizing and taxing it means a bigger government than what we currently have with criminalizing it. And which big form government is worse, one that can only tax a product, or one that can through you in jail for possessing it?

Edit to add: I'm not arguing for a special tax on legal weed. I'm just arguing for legalizing weed.

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Originally posted by rusbro:
I don't see how legalizing and taxing it means a bigger government than what we currently have with criminalizing it. And which big form government is worse, one that can only tax a product, or one that can through you in jail for possessing it?

Edit to add: I'm not arguing for a special tax on legal weed. I'm just arguing for legalizing weed.

No it doesn't mean a larger government, that argument was just plain silly. Not sure how he connected those dots.

Legal pot = billions less in Federal, State, and Local spending coupled with higher tax revenues = smaller government, but better funded government.

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Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
^^^ That depends. Are we talking about legalizing a commercially available product? Then you're probably right. Are we talking about legalizing growing at home and trading? Then not only are you probably wrong, but home-grown marijuana has been a tax-free way to pay for products and services in Northern California for some decades now.

No way in Hell is the federal government going to allow home grown pot. You’ll end up paying about half the price in taxes. Just as it is currently with cigarettes.

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Originally posted by Skins2881:

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Originally posted by rusbro:
I don't see how legalizing and taxing it means a bigger government than what we currently have with criminalizing it. And which big form government is worse, one that can only tax a product, or one that can through you in jail for possessing it?

Edit to add: I'm not arguing for a special tax on legal weed. I'm just arguing for legalizing weed.

No it doesn't mean a larger government, that argument was just plain silly. Not sure how he connected those dots.

Legal pot = billions less in Federal, State, and Local spending coupled with higher tax revenues = smaller government, but better funded government.

If pot is legalized, ill bet you a hundred dollars right now that within 5 years of legalization pot-related tax income will increase along with a commensurate increase in spending.

Legalize it.

Don't criticize it.

Legalize it (yeah, yeah).

And I'll advertise it.

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Originally posted by PowerSurge:
No way in Hell is the federal government going to allow home grown pot. You’ll end up paying about half the price in taxes. Just as it is currently with cigarettes.

They'll let you make your own wine and beer tax free, and if you go online you'll find companies that will sell you the seeds to grow your own tobacco. Come to think of it, isn't small-batch distilling at home legal as long as you don't sell (or, I guess, trade) the stuff?

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Originally posted by Skins2881:

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Originally posted by rusbro:
I don't see how legalizing and taxing it means a bigger government than what we currently have with criminalizing it. And which big form government is worse, one that can only tax a product, or one that can through you in jail for possessing it?

Edit to add: I'm not arguing for a special tax on legal weed. I'm just arguing for legalizing weed.

No it doesn't mean a larger government, that argument was just plain silly. Not sure how he connected those dots.

Legal pot = billions less in Federal, State, and Local spending coupled with higher tax revenues = smaller government, but better funded government.

Skins has listed it similar to the way I see it.
Govt. spends less since they don't need to arrest ($--because police officers are underpaid),tie up the court system ($$), incarcerate ( $$$ to house), etc.
And, Govt. has the ability to tax (Or should it be TAX) the growers, sellers, etc. of a new "cash crop".

While I have no interest in weed as a personal outlet, I'm amazed that the Govt. has resisted a virtual gold mine in taxing legalized marijuana.

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Originally posted by Il Cattivo:

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Originally posted by PowerSurge:
No way in Hell is the federal government going to allow home grown pot. You’ll end up paying about half the price in taxes. Just as it is currently with cigarettes.

They'll let you make your own wine and beer tax free, and if you go online you'll find companies that will sell you the seeds to grow your own tobacco. Come to think of it, isn't small-batch distilling at home legal as long as you don't sell (or, I guess, trade) the stuff?

Sure. One of my friends brews his own beer and there is also a limit as to how many gallons you can make per year. But the government knows the vast majority will not brew their own beer or make their own cigarettes just to avoid paying taxes on it. Its way too much work to do. Its much easier to just go to the store and pay the tax.

OK its too hard to grow tobacco and smoke it, but MJ is super easy to grow so everyone will do that to avoid taxes? Why is growing tobacco so much harder for people to do than growing pot? Why wouldn't the pot aficionado want to walk into Total Pot and select from 20 different strains of high end herb? Your argument doesn't make much sense. People are lazy, very few are going to dug up their yards and install a garden to save $2 a joint in taxes.

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Originally posted by Skins2881:
OK its too hard to grow tobacco and smoke it, but MJ is super easy to grow so everyone will do that to avoid taxes? Why is growing tobacco so much harder for people to do than growing pot? Why wouldn't the pot aficionado want to walk into Total Pot and select from 20 different strains of high end herb? Your argument doesn't make much sense. People are lazy, very few are going to dug up their yards and install a garden to save $2 a joint in taxes.

Geez louise. I never said that growing tobacco is so much harder than growing pot. My point is exactly what you just said. People are lazy. They’re going to pay the high taxes instead of growing and making their own and all that entails. Like I stated before, the taxes will end up being similar to cigarettes. About half of what you pay for cigarettes is tax.

I’m not against it being legalized, just against the increase in tax income.

The government pays mailbox farmers not to grow tobacco in this country.

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The government pays mailbox farmers not to grow tobacco in this country.

I can't begin to imagine how much .gov would save by paying folks to not grow pot.

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Originally posted by Il Cattivo:

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Originally posted by PowerSurge:
No way in Hell is the federal government going to allow home grown pot. You’ll end up paying about half the price in taxes. Just as it is currently with cigarettes.

They'll let you make your own wine and beer tax free, and if you go online you'll find companies that will sell you the seeds to grow your own tobacco. Come to think of it, isn't small-batch distilling at home legal as long as you don't sell (or, I guess, trade) the stuff?

Distilling, no.
https://www.ttb.gov/spirits/home-distilling.shtml

Supposedly it’s pretty easy to get various levels of distilling permits (educational demos, home fuels, etc). But, it’s verboten without a permit.

Intellectually, home distilling is somewhat fascinating, but I’m lazy like everyone else, and my bourbon consumption has tailed off considerably anyway.

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Originally posted by signewt:

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The government pays mailbox farmers not to grow tobacco in this country.

I can't begin to imagine how much .gov would save by paying folks to not grow pot.

Not to mention that "buy seeds and grow your own tobacco" in Kentucky (as well as many other tobacco producing states) is illegal unless you have tobacco base. (Tobacco base is a made up number that one has assigned to them by the government that is based upon land being owned, and so much land equals so many pounds that you are allowed to produce, for private consumption, or for sale). You have to have acreage that has base value still left in it, that hasn't been otherwise sold to another land owner, or to the government in exchange for the mailbox check.

The law specifically addresses "private use" as many back in the day tried to get around the base regulations by claiming that the tobacco they were growing wasn't in fact for sale, but for private use.

I grew up farming tobacco in Kentucky.

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Originally posted by jljones:
Not to mention that "buy seeds and grow your own tobacco" in Kentucky (as well as many other tobacco producing states) is illegal unless you have tobacco base. (Tobacco base is a made up number that one has assigned to them by the government that is based upon land being owned, and so much land equals so many pounds that you are allowed to produce, for private consumption, or for sale). You have to have acreage that has base value still left in it, that hasn't been otherwise sold to another land owner, or to the government in exchange for the mailbox check.

The law specifically addresses "private use" as many back in the day tried to get around the base regulations by claiming that the tobacco they were growing wasn't in fact for sale, but for private use.

I grew up farming tobacco in Kentucky.

So planting a plant or two in a homeowner’s garden to grow and make one’s own cigarettes (or chew) is illegal without a permit? Is that something that would actually be prosecuted?

Seems my delusions that there were still free states are getting crushed lately. Just yesterday I ran into Randy & Jackie when my son and I came out of the local indoor range.*. In the course of the conversation, Randy shared that it is illegal in AZ to take your dog for a hike if the temp is over 100. I’d agree that in the vast majority of cases it would be stupid, but does everyone need to be told what they can and can’t do with their dogs because some folks are stupid?


*My son wanted to check out the dark side so we compared their rental G19 against a P320 in compact form, then swapped the P320 to full-size form and traded the rental G19 for a G17. He hated the gen3 finger grooves and shot the P320 marginally better. He figures by the time he is old enough to buy a handgun he’ll be in Free America so he won’t be stuck with gen3, but he still likes the P320 better.

What’s it got to do with conservatives getting behind legalizing weed?

I swear, it’s like some of ya’ll is smoking the dope or somethin’.

As I said, the times, they are a-changin'. Legal weed in the heartland.

This feels like a tipping point on marijuana legalization