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| Member |
Damn guys. I didn’t watch the video. I have watched many many people use this drug. Close friends that I could get details from that aren’t “civil”. I have discussed this very drug at length with my surgeon. You guys hate that it is a crutch. I get that but it’s kind of silly to ignore that the result might actually be better. All of those side effects mentioned aren’t proven yet to be wide spread. Over time as more and more data comes in maybe the doom and gloom will be justified. Maybe it won’t. If someone uses artificial means to lose obese amounts of weight and they keep it off, that is a good thing. Everyone who has ever lost weight knows maintaining is easier than losing. If someone loses 50 lbs and then goes back to eating poorly and no exercise then the weight comes back on. Everybody I personally know on this drug have improved both the quality of what they eat and they have added some amount of exercise. Why? Because they feel better. They physically feel better and the weight loss is a psychological lift as well. When you are obese the mountain can seem overwhelming. Yes it’s a crutch but who cares if it works? If you have high blood pressure are you guys refusing to take blood pressure medicine because it's a fucking crutch? I sincerely doubt it. If this drug doesn’t have the horrible side effects that this thread hypothesizes, then it is a win. Yes some might get fat again, but for many it will change their life for the better forever. Everything pharma does isn’t evil or bad. And just to be clear since you guys seem to love to put words in my mouth, I ain’t arguing with the video. Didn’t even watch it. Read what I wrote. I told you what I have personally seen and what my Dr has told me. So take your “I don’t understand people who clearly didn’t watch the video argue with those about the video” and put it wherever you like. "I agree. I don’t understand people who clearly didn’t watch the video argue with those about the video. It’s one thing to watch with a closed mind and have an opinion on your own biases but to not even watch it and then have big opinions is kind of silly". What is actually silly 1s1k is your whole post. Screw you and your closed mind nonsense. This whole thread reeks of "big Pharma is evil" therefore everything is evil and bad. The very definition of close minded. How many guys on this thread take big Pharma meds to control all kinds of things. Are they evil too? I posted my observations of friends and family who have been taking this stuff, I posted what my Dr said, and that is what you got out of my comments? | |||
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Nullus Anxietas |
Didn't watch the video yet is commenting on the points made in the video. Nor were the side-effects of the mRNA "vaccines"... until they were. False. See, for example: Maintaining Weight Loss N.B.: Most people. I took BP meds only as long as necessary, then I dropped them. How? Diet and exercise. My BP this morning was 111/77. It's averaged 113/76 for the last ten weeks. Except there's a growing body of evidence that it does have the side-effects mentioned in this thread. But that was covered in the video you did not watch. Or you could just search on something like "dangers of ozempic" and find a slew of reports. I seem to vaguely recall para more than once cautioning members about showing respect for fellow members? "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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| Member |
Serious questions and watching the video has nothing to do with the questions. Do you have a tendency to look at an industry with a jaded eye that spends big money on products that consumers can't just go down to the store and buy? What are they really selling with that advertising? You can go buy a Lexus car or Samsung TV but you can't just go buy Ozempic or CABENUVA. Personally I think and have always thought they are buying influence with the media outlet they are advertising with. Huge amounts go to Fox, NBC, CBS, ABC, New York Times, Washington Post, etc. Any of those platforms would have to think really hard about doing any investigative report concerning their biggest revenue streams. | |||
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Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best |
I'll agree with that...at least if somebody is motivated and really willing to make the sacrifices necessary to lose it and keep it off. I lost 85 lbs in 2015-2016 through primarily dietary changes and running. Running sucks when you're heavy. It's absolutely horrible. I had a good buddy at work who encouraged me to go to the gym with him every day, and he'd always run a few warmup laps with me before he went in to lift. I told him at one point that me running was like him running while wearing a 100lb pack, lol. I still don't love doing it, but it's way easier now that I'm lighter. So are situps, pushups, pullups, squats...any of the body weight stuff I do. It still takes kicking yourself in the ass to get out and do it, but it's nowhere near as physically exhausting and painful now that I'm not hauling all the extra around and my cardio is stronger. | |||
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| Member |
I shouldn’t have said screw you. Sorry. That one part was wrong. I’ve reread my post multiple times. You guys took a simple post and crucified me over it. Everything I said is either first hand knowledge or common sense. There currently is no medical evidence of these side effects being on a large scale. If a bunch of people had their colon stop working it would show up in studies. This is scare stuff right now. Maybe time will prove you correct. We shall see. There is a huge test group out there right now so I don’t think we will have to wait long for info. Back on topic, so at least one guy on this thread used a “crutch” to maintain their health. Hypocritical? Especially since high BP could have been avoided in the first place with proper diet and exercise like you figured out. So somebody else struggles with weight but you get to take some baloney moral high ground because they aren’t doing it your way. Which it turns out you didn’t either. You used medication from big pharma to fix a problem that you could have taken care of without a CRUTCH. Hmmm, seems the emperor isn’t wearing any clothes. This shit works for weight loss. Wildly effective. For adult onset diabetes patients it is a miracle drug. Don’t take it if you want to lose weight the natural way or you fear the potential side effects. Your body your choice. My surgeon told me his wife is on it. His words, “miracle drug”. I doubt he is hoping to destroy her colon. | |||
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| Member |
The reason I said watch the video is because you’re missing most of what the video is all about but I’m the close minded one who watched the video and learned about things I have never thought of. Of course if someone loses a bunch of weight it’s going to make them feel better but that’s not what it’s about. No one is doubting the drug is giving the final results people want. It’s mostly about automatically trusting big Pharma with another drug that is being pushed through because of profits. Does that sound familiar to you or not? I’m not even going to get into all the other interesting details because at this point you could watch the entire video and stick to the same unrelated points because you are literally that stubborn. | |||
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| Member |
Dude. I’m not going to watch your video. I just was adding some real life data into the discussion. I really don’t care if you are terrified of this drug. I have spoken with 3 Dr’s, one of which is my surgeon the other 2 are just good friends. Their opinions do not mirror what is on this thread and I assume your video. Discount my input or not, I care not. I just am adding to a thread. Regardless of what the video says it won’t alter what my personal experience has been and what various doctors have told me. Maybe they are wrong. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe you are wrong. Time will tell. At this point if I was obese I would take this drug based on what I have seen from my friends experience and what my doctor (friends) have told me. By the way, I looked it up, this class of drugs has been on the market since 2017. Yes, it has exploded since the diet effect has been recognized, but this is not a new drug. It’s just being used in a new way now. Have any of the diabetics who have been taking this for the last six or seven years shown a massive set of side effects? I think the answer is no, maybe someone has a more definitive answer. To answer your other question, I hate big pharma. I hate their influence. I think they put profits over people. All that being said, I also know that they have made wonderful medical advances that have saved lives and improved lives. I know that every product should be looked at using its own merits not just “evil bad big pharma so its all bad” mantra. | |||
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| Member |
A slight drift. Today, Lilly (Zepbound) was up $38.55/share and Novo (Ozempic/Wegovy) was up $4.56/share. I was late to the party earlier this month when I bought stock in of both of them but, they still have room to run IMHO. Wish I'd purchased them last year. | |||
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| Nullus Anxietas |
You weren't crucified, your arguments were crucified. That's the major difference between what everybody else is doing and what you're doing. Aka: Apocryphal "evidence." Already addressed. So far you've engaged in ad hominems, raised strawman arguments, employed reductio ad absurdum tactics, and, predictably... A "gotcha" argument coupled with another ad hominem. Congratulations: You took the bait. This, class, is what's known as "begging the question": An informal fallacy that occurs when an argument's premises assumes the truth of the conclusion without supporting it. Annnnd another ad hominem, followed by... ...more begging the question and another ad hominem. Which entirely fails to address the points of the video you refuse to watch and which is the basis upon which most members in this thread are discussing. Discussing, not attacking. Clearly you don't grasp the difference. "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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| would not care to elaborate  |
yeah maybe it does work for weight loss, especially for those who shouldn't be resorting to it | |||
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| Member |
Dang enigmatic, I never said it was EVIDENCE. It is my personal freaking observations and conversations with my own Dr and Dr's that are friends. What part of that is so difficult for you to understand? I am not claiming it is scientific, it is evidence, it is ground breaking, it is personal anecdotal observations that I thought would add to a thread about Ozempic. Then you jumped my shit, or my "argument" as you called it. It's not an argument, it is what I have observed. That's it. Nothing more and nothing less. You can keep nesting my statements all you want but you are making my point for me. You think it's bad. Ok, my OBSERVATIONS from real people on this drug are universally well received with minor or no side effects. My doctors and doctor friends mirror that observation. Not evidence, not a peer reviewed study, just a fucking observation. I know you think throwing out logical fallacies makes you sound smart. It doesn't. Especially when applied incorrectly. You took BP medicine when diet and exercise were the correct application of regimen. I used the word CRUTCH because that was the word YOU chose to use. I threw it back at you on purpose. It was a poor argument on your part and hypocritical since you in fact used a CRUTCH to get your BP under control. Once again, I never watched your stupid video. I merely gave observations of actual use and my own personal opinion. Never claimed it was scientifically proven, unlike you. Who thinks this video and webmd Hopkins article on their website is somehow a medical study. Did it occur to you that the link to that article doesn't even have a single reference to any actual science? As for whether people should take this drug to help them with obesity or whether they should lose it through diet and exercise, that is an obvious vote for the latter. Like many things in life though, there are tradeoffs and compromises. Many obese people will never lose significant amounts of weight strictly through diet and exercise. If this helps someone lose a massive amount of weight that is significantly better than the diseases that accompany obesity. If an obese person tolerates this drug well and they lose a significant amount of weight they will, yes will, live a healthier and longer life. If their colon explodes then not so much. Data will show that if it is in fact true. There is a lot of "holier than thou" attitudes on this thread. A fat person seeking medical help to battle obesity is a loser, a crutch seeking POS who should just eat less and exercise more. However, someone who takes meds to control other things that also would be fixed by a better diet and exercise get a free pass. Why? Is high blood pressure somehow more socially acceptable than being fat? I suspect a large portion of this thread participants have used or are currently on medication that fits this criteria. So yea, if you are obese and you haven't been able to control it, you should consider talking to your doctor because the results are astounding. The medical science to back up the scare mongering on this thread doesn't exist at this point. It might in the future but as of today most people have mild or no side effects. Not being obese and dying of a myriad of obesity related diseases is probably a better choice than dismissing this class of drugs out of hand. Add diet and exercise and you absolutely can use this drug to get to a healthy spot and then stop taking the drug. The only lifetime takers are people who refuse to take step #2. | |||
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| Nullus Anxietas |
The potential side-effects aside: The problem, as I see it, isn't so much people resorting to it for weight loss, per se, but people relying solely upon it for weight loss and maintenance, rather than seeking to address the unhealthy lifestyle choices that resulted in their obesity and diabetes. I imagine there are precious few members here who have not relied upon pharmaceuticals at least occasionally throughout their lives. Off the top of my head I've used, at one time or another:
I was also vaccinated against smallpox as a child, and probably polio, as well. The argument here isn't against the use of pharmaceuticals to control disease or illness that cannot otherwise be cured, mediated, mitigated, or prevented. The argument is against the wisdom of relying upon pharmaceuticals to mitigate the results of poor lifestyle choices as the solution to the problem. And make no mistake: Obesity is almost invariably a direct result of poor lifestyle choices. Other than metabolic dysfunction as a result of disease or genetics, it's simply a matter of "CICO": Calories In/Calories Out. If you consume more calories than you expend the excess calories will be stored as fat. If you expend more calories than you consume, fat will be burned to make up the difference. This is science. "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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| Member |
Yea but this entire thread is about how it is bad. Big Pharma is bad. The side effects are bad. Taking it for weight loss is bad. Only America using it off label (used to be) is bad. You are stating the obvious now. No one goes to a doctor who is competent and has an obesity conversation that ends with a semi glutide prescription and diet and exercise don't come up. That isn't a doctor. That is a pill factory. I am sure they exist, you shouldn't use one as your GP however. If someone gets on this drug they want to lose weight. While the results are very impressive, it isn't magic. Nearly everyone taking this drug shows results for a simple reason. It suppresses your desire for food and if ignored and you overeat your body will quickly and uncomfortably show you the error of your ways. If someone is looking for an easy way to lose weight and not change their eating habits semi glutides will absolutely not work well. I had colon cancer, I was on a shit ton of drugs. I didn't take you to task because I think drugs are inherently bad. They saved my life. I took you to task because you among others on this thread appear to be taking a position that taking a drug to lose weight because you should lose weight the hard way is a very judgmental view. If I am misattributing this to you then I apologize, that is a common theme on this thread though. If you are obese and struggle to gain a healthy weight, consult your Dr. This drug, combined with a view toward better diet and exercise, if well tolerated by your body could quite possibly be a massive game changer in regards to quality and quantity of life. Disregarding it because of prior sins of big Pharma and as yet unproven health fears is not a reasonable stance in my opinion (just in case someone thinks I am providing proof, nope, just common sense). Obesity and its deadly disease vectors is an awful way to die. These drugs have the potential to help a whole lot of people. And yes if they stay on it forever or ignore the common sense approach of improving diet and exercise as well then that is a shame. It is also their choice. | |||
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| would not care to elaborate |
Doctors are prescribing this to young women for managing weight loss, who are not clinically overweight. Reminds me of the obsession for aesthetic plastic surgery. | |||
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