I believe that Pope Leo has not responded to Erik Prince’s request for the Church to fund mercenaries to protect Christians in Africa from the terrorism of Boko Haram and others.

I am not Catholic, but my grandsons will be. I long for the papacies of John Paul II and Benedict XVI.

There was a time when the Church recognized the dangers of islam and fought battles to stop it. They didn't pray for peace, they prayed for victory...and they won.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
I had hopes...they're gone.

I still have hope for him, but many of my friends and family have given up on him as well.

With this and his appointing Cupich to some Vatican commission ( link), it's getting tougher and tougher to say "Just give him a chance".

Once I'm healed up and mobile, I'm happy to host local, frustrated Catholics at my non-Denominational Bible Church. Live worship music followed by inspiring, encouraging sermons based on the Bible, and since it's independent there are zero headquarters commies forcing nonsense on the local church.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
There was a time when the Church recognized the dangers of islam and fought battles to stop it. They didn't pray for peace, they prayed for victory...and they won.

That time will come again...
It may be overdue.

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:
Once I'm healed up and mobile, I'm happy to host local, frustrated Catholics at my non-Denominational Bible Church.

Not to disparage your generous offer, and many Catholics have done similar...
But most frustrated Catholics just want the Church to be Catholic again.
When Martin Luther brought his grievances to the Church, he didn't really want to leave, he wanted reform. Further splintering the Church is not what we want.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
Not to disparage your generous offer, and many Catholics have done similar...

But most frustrated Catholics just want the Church to be Catholic again.

When Martin Luther brought his grievances to the Church, he didn't really want to leave, he wanted reform. Further splintering the Church is not what we want.

Understood, but to be fair each individual has choices in light of likely timelines:

{individual's results in a few months} Vote with their feet and find new Bible based church w/o denominational baggage (e.g. multiple paths to heaven nonsense). A downside is reform from the outside is generally less effective.

{individual's results in many years or decades} Push for reformation on multiple fronts (weeding out commie influence, priest shortage, etc) and IMO the first being the college of cardinals as their conclaves have given two substandard popes in a row. An upside to individual's staying there is a lot of merit to pushing reform from inside the church. Historically, the Vatican has a slow history of reform. To be fair and more recent, Vatican 2 took 3 years to prepare, 3 years to conduct, and Pope Paul VI began implementing fairly quickly so 6 years is plausible with an amenable Pope.

Blend of bullets 1 and 2. Leave now and come back after reformation occurs. This assumes the Vatican doesn't resort to excommunication of open critics who leave.

As far as past major schisms:

Prior to the Eastern Orthodox schism, the Vatican responded with excommunication.

Prior to the Protestant schism, the Vatican responded harshly and punitively to reform attempts (e.g. Martin Luther excommunicated within 4 years and threatened with jail, William Tyndale was jailed 1.5 years and ultimately strangled to death, Heinrich Möller was burned at the stake, etc). Excommunication still possible today but the jailing and violence extremely unlikely today due to a multitude of reasons.

Getting back to historical reform timelines, the Vatican didn't get around to holding the Council of Trent to address the doctrinal concerns until 38 years after Martin Luther's 95 Theses started the German reformation and 36 years after Zwingli started the Swiss reformation.

---

Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.

^^ All valid points, tatortodd.

I do understand that reform is not likely in my lifetime under the current regime of cardinals. But I will always be a Catholic...

There are more conservative parishes to be found where you can avoid the globalist woke culture this Pope wants to be a part of. Even though we are supposedly "in communion" with the Vatican that doesn't really mean much to me on a daily basis.

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
With a guy like Leo, thank god I’m an atheist

Judging Christianity by using any flawed human as your point of reference, venerated leader or otherwise, would be like trying to judge the music of Bach or Beethoven if your only reference point is listening to a middle school band try play their compositions.


.

Pope Hypocrite?
By Alice Giordano

Safe to say, traditional Catholics repelled by the liberal views of the late Pope Francis are not finding much relief under its new pontiff.

In October, Pope Leo took yet another sharp-tongued and sarcastic aim at President Donald Trump for ejecting illegal immigrants from America, likening it to abortion and implying he is a hypocrite. "Someone who says I am against abortion but in agreement with the inhuman treatment of immigrants in the United States, I don't know if that's pro life," the Bishop of Rome pondered out loud to media from his luxe Castel Gandolfo digs in Italy.

Castel Gandolfo, for the record, is the Pope's summer home. The Apostolic Palace is a sprawling edifice, spanning 1.7 million square feet and boasting 1,000 rooms. To put that in perspective, Pope Leo lives in a building that is about one acre in size.

The palace itself is surrounded by 135 acres that make up Vatican City, which has a small residential population of only 600 permanent residents, resulting in a ton of open space. The luxe property consists of elaborate gardens, an observatory, and tennis courts and would enrapture anyone living there. It is definitely large enough to shelter hundreds if not thousands of illegal immigrants.

But here's the catch. They're not allowed.

Vatican City, as it turns out, emphasizes that it is a sovereign state, much like the United States, and not only doesn't permit open borders and thus open-door policies, but it also has some of the strictest laws against what it calls "illegal entry." They were stepped up in 2023 by Pope Francis under a new doctrine called the "Fundamental Law" and last December, at the peak of the Advent season, were harshened in a new five-page decree issued by the Vatican.

Written in Italian, its title translates to "Decree for the Vatican City State Concerning Illicit Entry Into The Territory Of the Vatican City State."

Since taking office in May, Pope Leo has upheld the pontifical "illegal entry" laws, which includes hefty fines and hefty prison terms.

They are enforced by the Vatican's heavily armed Swiss Guard and a tactical team known as the Gendarmerie Corps.

Nevertheless, with Christmas just around the corner, Pope Leo was back at his no-foreigners fortress singing what you might call a hollow version of "Silent Night" in response to a mock "deportation" of Baby Jesus and the rest of the Holy Family from a nativity scene. In their place, Boston priest Stephen Josoma, staked down a giant sign amidst the makeshift hay-covered manger "ICE WAS HERE." There was no denunciation from the papacy for the desecration of the sacred Catholic display.

Of course, the antipodal cant of the Vicar of Christ is nothing new. When Cardinal Blase Cupich of Chicago caught flack for picking abortion fanatic Senate Democrat whip Dick Durbin as a recipient for the church's lifetime achievement award for his support of immigrants. Who sided with the controversial choice? None other than Windy City native Pope Leo.

"I think it's important to look at the overall work that a senator has done during, if I'm not mistaken, in 40 years of service in the United States Senate,' His Holiness declared.

Durbin is not just pro-abortion, he is a leading lobbyist for late-term abortions. In fact, earlier this year, he slammed the Republican-led Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act.

Pope Leo then went on to vigorously accurse climate change deniers. In a theatrical move, he stood alongside Terminator actor and former California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger as he laid his pious hand on a large block of glacier ice transported 3,000 miles aboard a fuel-guzzling freighter from Greenland to Rome.

The pontiff proceeded to pray for the wretched souls who have, he lamented, ignored the "cry of the Earth."

The pontiff has also pledged his solidarity to Palestine. But has never once publicly censured the grisly Oct. 7 attacks carried out by the Palestinian military group Hamas against Israeli civilians.

And while several Catholic leaders, including both cardinals and bishops, released statements condemning the murder of Jewish couple Sarah Milgram and Yaron Lischinsky outside the Jewish Museum in Washington D.C., there appears to have been no statement released from the pope.

To boot, just a few months after taking up the $40 million-valued gold throne the pope sits on at the Vatican, he bothered to criticize -- not outgoing President Joe Biden for pardoning several convicted rapists including Marvin Gabrion who was also convicted of killing an 11-month-old baby -- but instead Vice President JD Vance for saying that loving one's family comes before loving others.

Perhaps the Catholic church needs to add an Eleventh Commandment -- thou shalt commit political posturing.

Peter Isely, Global Advocacy Chair of the group Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP) is among a chorus of Catholics who have expressed outrage over the pope's polarizing missions. He charged the Italian prelate with sitting on a "giant mound of hypocrisy" after Leo scrapped the church's "zero tolerance policy" and appointed priest sex crime concealant Archbishop Filippo-Iannone to oversee allegations against priests.

After his appointment, Iannone, according to Isely, promptly instructed the Dicastery for Legislative Texts to avoid publishing anything that would damage the "good reputation" of priests accused of rape and sexual assault. Meanwhile, Pope Leo decided to levy some more minimis broadsides against parishioners, this time, for referring to Mary, the Holy Mother of God, as a co-redeemer, saying only Jesus can bear the title.

Apparently, co-redemptrix, a title which dates back to the second century and widely used since the fifteenth century by the Catholic leaders including popes, bucks church tradition.

Meanwhile, in September, the pope allowed the display of a rainbow-colored crucifix at the Vatican as part of some LGBTQ+ Catholic pilgrimage. In an article spurning the pride cross as blasphemous, the Christian outlet Charisma Magazine asked, "What has happened to the Vatican?”

Good question.

https://www.americanthinker.co.../pope_hypocrite.html

Instead of looking out over the upturned faces of adoring celebrants in St Peter's Square, I wonder how much he would like viewing a sea of cardboard and tarp huts and hearing his Popemobile mechanics griping about pulling syringe needles out of the tires. And don't forget the crap staining those beautiful stone patterns of the piazza. It's easy to criticize others when the rules don't apply to you in your safe little cocoon.

After greeting the enemy in Rome perhaps a Catholic sub-group should ask to build a large church in Mecca.

Negotiating with Muslims is a waste of time but it would show the pope and the left how ignorant they are.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
In October, Pope Leo took yet another sharp-tongued and sarcastic aim at President Donald Trump for ejecting illegal immigrants from America, likening it to abortion and implying he is a hypocrite. "Someone who says I am against abortion but in agreement with the inhuman treatment of immigrants in the United States, I don't know if that's pro life," the Bishop of Rome pondered out loud to media from his luxe Castel Gandolfo digs in Italy.

Then open up the Vatican, all of the buildings, and start to house the disenfranchised, the poor, the Muslims that came in to their country. Feed them, clothe them, etc.

But we know very well you won't, fuckin' lying hypocrite.

Crusades 2.0

Saladin 1187, this time through pure appeasement and just opening up the door.

We are living in historical times