Only the hybrid makes sense. Toyota has been making them for years.

quote:

Add to that, the lack of highway road taxes on fuel that maintain our highway system.

Around here, the state just jacks up your vehicle registration cost to make up for it, if you have an EV or ICE that gets too good gas mileage.

And the state governments just keep raising the price of registration fees/ plates/. safety inspection /etc/to make up for the monies loss of road tax monies from the sale of gasoline / and taxing the EV"s for the mileage driven to make up for the gasoline taxes................... drill sgt.

quote:

Originally posted by crue-dell:
That article reads like a hit piece. I wonder what the author’s background is? Probably works for big oil

Of course he does. It’s obvious to anyone that really pays attention to the industry and what’s really going on.

“40 year veteran of the oil and gas industry. Long-time writer on energy issues. Widely recognized subject matter expert on energy. Contributor at Forbes.com, The Daily Caller, World Oil Magazine and The Petroleum Economist”

^^^Have either of you 'fact checked' any of the claims in this so-called hit piece. Perhaps EVs are simply a financial disaster for the auto manufacturers and to make matter worse, people really don't want to buy them either! Sometimes the truth hurts!

The ignorant criminally moronic heavy hand of the government is never a match for the invisible hand of the market. People don’t want retarded bureaucrats choosing what they can drive. Let the FN tech develop naturally without the stupidity of government intervention!

Idiots with a similar ideology over in Europe are absolutely killing the motorcycle industry with their infuriating euro emission regs. These hypocrites fly around all day in their jets to “save the planet”. Words fail to express the contempt I harbor towards these FN liars. The best thing for the planet would be if they all died.

"Hit Piece"?? The guy didn't even mention the NON EXISTENT demand for pre-owned EV's.

Nobody wants one of these used rolling lithium incendiary bombs!

quote:

Originally posted by snidera:
Hybrids (HEV) are overly complex to build for the 10-15% gain in gas mileage.
One of the biggest positives from an automaker standpoint is the cost to build an EV vs a Gas or HEV vehicle.
The cost (components & assembly) of a modern V6 - DOHC, variable valve timing, direct injection, turbo(s), etc plus an 8+ speed transmission is outrageous.
In comparison, an electric motor is simple & cheap. Most EVs don't have a transmission.

With HEV, you get the worst of both worlds.

A hybrid doesn't need a transmission or a V6 engine either. The engine just runs to charge the battery.

With HEV, you actually get the best of both worlds.

The fact of the matter is very few vehicles are selling right now and dealer lots are overflowing. Once a month Caredge publishes the Top 10 slowest and Top 10 fastest selling cars.

The fast selling list hss 8 of 10 vehicles being basic, reliable vehicles whose MSRP didn't go up as much the past 4 years.

Manufacturers who raised prices the most the last 4 years are hogging the slowest selling list. People don't want $100k SUVs, $75k half ton trucks, and overpriced unnecessary complex crap that jacks up the price (e.g $1500 tail lights, $2500 headlights, $3000 windshields). Also, if you raised your price 50% in 4 years people just aren't that interested in a 10% manufacturer incentive. They're going to need bigger incentives, but I think the real change needed is they have to start removing the overpriced unnecessary complex crap from their designs to claw back price.

How do EVs fit in. Only 2 of top 10 slowest selling are EVs (Jag I-pace and Chevy Blazer EV) and 0 of top 10 fastest selling cars are EVs. EV's are expensive and full of expensive doodads which the opposite of what is selling in this economy. Many don't appear on the Caredge list which is based on inventory on dealer's lots as many of the new EV companies (e.g. Rivian, Tesla) are direct to consumer model without dealerships.

quote:

Originally posted by BigSwede:
GM is on top of this

And put Apple CarPlay back and get off their own subscription model.

Was going to trade my 2019 Blazer for an EV and once I heard that CarPlay was gone, I asked for my deposit back.

quote:

Originally posted by crue-dell:
That article reads like a hit piece. I wonder what the author’s background is? Probably works for big oil

"40 year veteran of the oil and gas industry. Long-time writer on energy issues. Widely recognized subject matter expert on energy. Contributor at Forbes.com, The Daily Caller, World Oil Magazine and The Petroleum Economist"

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
Most of us don’t like to be told what to do

Exactly. This very statement is a lesson I learned from my boss, some 24 years ago: "Look, [vthoky], nobody likes being told what to do."

I reminded him of this conversation recently. He didn't remember us having it, but I surely do!

If the drive (bad pun?) toward EVs were organic -- as in, consumer-driven, that would be one thing. But that the push to EVs is essentially being mandated [by big GOV] is almost criminal.

If an EV suits your use, then great for you! Go get one! If it doesn't, then don't. It's that easy.
When GOV decides it must get in the way and make the decision for us, that's not good for We the People, at all.

I’m a long time GM buyer, my current Silverado has 145k miles. I may end up at Toyota next time. I’d go hybrid, no desire for fully electric.

https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/silverado-ev

Looks like GM wants to compete with the Ford Lightning. Much gets propped up by the Gov’t, subsidies, incentives, mandates & the rest.

I think when all is factored in, it’s a wash as far as ‘saving the planet’ & all that. The same as far as the buyer saving any $$ with energy costs.

quote:

Originally posted by Broadside:

quote:

Originally posted by snidera:
Hybrids (HEV) are overly complex to build for the 10-15% gain in gas mileage.
One of the biggest positives from an automaker standpoint is the cost to build an EV vs a Gas or HEV vehicle.
The cost (components & assembly) of a modern V6 - DOHC, variable valve timing, direct injection, turbo(s), etc plus an 8+ speed transmission is outrageous.
In comparison, an electric motor is simple & cheap. Most EVs don't have a transmission.

With HEV, you get the worst of both worlds.

A hybrid doesn't need a transmission or a V6 engine either. The engine just runs to charge the battery.

With HEV, you actually get the best of both worlds.

None of the models I'm familiar with works as you suggest. Wasn't the volt supposed to be like that? For the same reasons we all don't have generators in the backyard running 24/7/365.
I will qualify with the ones I'm most familiar with - Toyota. Of the models I've been involved with the manufacturing of, each one has a gasoline engine that drives a transmission, the electric motor provides more power at low speed / less at higher speeds.
Traditionally, electric motors are more efficient at lower RPM (vs internal combustion) and less efficient at higher RPM*. ICE is the opposite, making HEVs more efficient for fuel consumption at the expense of complexity (2 drive systems, 2 electrical systems, 2 energy storage systems etc)

*Advances in motor & control design are improving high-rpm efficiency. Politics & bullshit aside, I want EVs to be successful as I feel they solve a lot of problems that ICE has dead-ended. They just aren't there yet - and I don't see the roadmap to get there yet. But I've been accused of being a grouchy old man by grouchy old men in my chain of command....

quote:

Originally posted by snidera:

quote:

Originally posted by Broadside:
A hybrid doesn't need a transmission or a V6 engine either. The engine just runs to charge the battery.

None of the models I'm familiar with works as you suggest.

I'm with snidera on this one. Every hybrid I've dealt with has had both an ICE drivetrain and an electric one.

The new GM EV Silverado weighs 9116 pounds. That seems a little heavy??

My son and I drove the minivan loaded with crap my wife wanted to go north while towing two jetskis. It took us two days to go the 1,500 miles. The money we saved on hotel rooms paid for our gas compared to trying to do that with trip with an EV.

An EV might be good for a second vehicle for commuters. But once they tack on $50k worth of un-needed geegaws and price them into the stratosphere, there's no place for them. No one I know wants an $80k second vehicle that's only useful as a commuter.

Not to mention, those of us who live in "hurricane ally" will from time to time need to evacuate. No way in hell I'd want to sit in a Rita-like evacuation traffic jam in an EV.

Yes most commercial hybrids have an engine/transmission and add a supplemental electric motor. The motor can be pancaked between the engine and transmission, or in parallel with the engine. The motor can act as a motor for supplemental power or a generator to charge the hybrid battery.

There are a few true series hybrids now, with an ICE motor powering a generator, charging a battery, and then electric motors driving the wheels. Honda is making these now.

Until recently, true series hybrids were only used in locomotives and mining equipment where it's necessary because a transmission to get all that power to the wheels is virtually impossible to make. Imagine slipping a clutch on a locomotive for miles to get it up to speed, or a torque converter...

The Chevy Volt was a plug-in parallel hybrid that could run on just battery for a little while. I am thinking that a plug-in hybrid with a big enough battery to go 50 miles or so without the ICE engine running is the sweet spot. Most people could do all their daily driving without the ICE running, and the smaller battery will weigh less and charge faster, maybe even on 120v.

quote:

Originally posted by sourdough44:
The new GM EV Silverado weighs 9116 pounds. That seems a little heavy??

Says 8800 pounds in this Car and Driver article... not far off.