I'm guessing I've lived a relatively sheltered life in city/suburban environments all my life.

I've been poking around different areas in OR, TX, WY, UT, ID. I'm trying to stay out away from urban metro areas like Austin, Boise, SLC, etc. I'm guessing more than not, while being in red states, they are somewhat blue leaning and/or trending more toward blue, especially as the great exodus continues over time.

I'm looking for land (at least 3-5 acres) with a nice ocean or lake or river view. Electricity, phone, cable seem relatively straight forward (latter may be somewhat hit/miss). But I think I want city water and sewer; I'm a little averse to well and septic. I have the perception that city water will be cleaner and more dependable. And sewer seems easy and reliable although I could probably get used to septic.

But most of the land / houses in the more suburban / rural areas seem all well / septic based.

Dumb question: outside of big metro areas, do most people live with well and septic? Is there a rule of thumb when a town gets to be certain size, they convert to city/sewer system? Or how is it decided where water/sewer vs well/septic is used?

I guess even city areas can be affected by drought. But my impression here is that wells get hit harder and earlier than city water. At least here out west where aquifers are dry (thank you Pom)?

Is it going to be hard to find land/house with water/sewer near oceans / lakes unless it's like SF or LA or SLC?

The Gulf coast from nola to destin, Florida have water and sewer. I have lived with both. Having city water and sewer is a lot less maintenance.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
I have the perception that city water will be cleaner and more dependable.

It's run, and regulated, by the gov't.....

I've been on well/septic all of my almost-40yrs, except for at college.
I've never thought about septic, except when we moved ours to dig a walk out. That was a pain in the ass, but only because of the gov't. A letter beginning "when I was processing your application, I noticed you don't have an application" is always a fun trip. Same guy 'designs' almost all septic systems he also approves in the county. He made me change plans 3x, day of install.
We're in a shallow-well area & have center-pivot irrigation wells nearby (4 within sight of my house, 300 gal/min or more). My only well issues in 11yrs of living here have been 1) my grandpa plowed too deep & cut the power wire 2x and 2) I had sand build up in the pressure tank that got kicked out this summer when irrigating lawn and plugged house filters.

A well-run utility in an area with semi-sane government will have no problems. Read up on Flint MI's water issues. If THEY have a problem, YOU have a problem & no recourse to fix it.
If I have a problem, I have a problem & have a well/septic guy on speed dial. If he doesn't answer, I load up the cooler & drive by his house, usually smokes him out.

If I was house hunting, it wouldn't be a make or break situation unless something was screwy one way or the other.

The absolute answer is that it all varies.

All municipal water/wastewater system/services arise from the people in the location deciding to make it more or less available due to a great many factors.

The greatest factor is cost of delivery of services.

Best thing I can recommend is you make a list of every place you would like to live, than investigate what their offerings for service are.

Some places you get "nasty" well water (fine to drink but unpleasant in smell or taste), and some places you cna get spring water, that is pleasant all the way around.

I lived in Baltimore and the water was horrid. I have lived in very rural areas with terrible well water.
And lived in cities with great water, as well as rural with great well or spring water.

As far as septic, it is a "semi-closed" eco system. The waste and water end up in a box where some solids fall out (to the bottom), "greases" rise to the top, and in the middle the decomp occurs and the remainig fluid flows out pipes in the drain field to be absorbed into the ground, the water both evaporates and flows out to mix with rain water saturation and the microbes in the drain field continue to munch on lunch.

Too much water and even too little water (same as waste) can upset the "balance" (functioning) of the septic system as well as "wrong things" introduced to septic. Hair conditioner, bleach, drain cleaners, foodstuffs, lint from laundry, hair, etc.

Having a system pumped every couple of years helps with removing greases, solids and stuff you do not want in there.

Although the "bad stuff" entering the drain field can cause a "bio collapse", clogged tubes/pores, and the inability of the fluid to leach out of the pipes into the field.

That usually requires having a new field put in next or near the original, and can be costly.

A properly managed septic system can last for the life of the home, and a poorly managed one can break you bank account and your nerves.

Probably more than you wanted to know about it, but hope it helps.

Texas Gulf Coast will have land outside of city limits without water and sewer. You might possibly see see in the mid-coast area small towns with water and sewer service from Guadalupe-Blanco River Authority.

I think your aversion to well and septic is mostly fueled by inexperience; I like both (but then our water is great). The one thing I would recommend trying to find is a house or property with natural gas, rather than requiring propane service.

Well and septic can be more reliable than city services (sometimes), but it requires you to be responsible for the maintenance.

We're on multiple wells (using two of the four available), septic, and the house is powered by offgrid solar. It is very reliable and there are more power outages affecting the front gate, barn, and wells (PG&E) than there are affecting the house (offgrid solar, battery bank, propane powered backup generator, and if that fails, I run down to the barn, scoop up the forks with the skiploader, fork up the arcwelder (&10KW generator) skid, haul it up, plug the cord into it, flip the transfer switch and light it off). The water gravity feeds out of a 420,000 gallon tank (that also feeds the orchard irrigation) down to the house at 30 psi. VFD driven pumps charge pressure tanks for the house and the landscape/garden irrigation to 75 psi. It all works very well. There were lessons learned along the way, things fixed, etc, but I have control. Yes, it is more work, but things work as well as you set them up and maintain them, and you have control over how robust you want to make things.

The next steps for us would be a 240v UPS for the front gate so it always worked and didn't have to be manually operated when PG&E had issues and a whacking great three phase diesel generator (or two) so that we could run either the 15 hp well, the 25 hp well, or both if PG&E turned into a pumpkin. Of course if we were setting up for TEOTWAWKI, we'd want a full 7500 gallon diesel tanker or two so that we could run the generator(s) for a while.

Frankly, I look for the 240v UPS every once in a while, but I have yet to come up with a simple, clean, cost effective solution for that, so that is waiting. I'd probably have to win the lottery and have more money than I know what to do with before I'd buy the generators and lay in way too much diesel, and since I understand statistics and don't buy tickets, that isn't likely to happen.

Been there. Lived in the NE for 60 years.

Moved to Northern AZ. First time for well/septic.
Ask a LOT of questions on the well. Not just the output, but recovery rate as well.
Get a water test for everything. First time is expensive, about $500. Try and get the seller to spring for it.
Here, a new house sale has to have the septic pumped by the seller. After that, just a rinse of the filter every year, and pumped 3-5 years.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Dumb question: outside of big metro areas, do most people live with well and septic? Is there a rule of thumb when a town gets to be certain size, they convert to city/sewer system? Or how is it decided where water/sewer vs well/septic is used?

It's really more about how the land was developed and how much folks want to pay to have certain services.

The suburb I live in is fairly developed and yet a mile away the neighborhoods are on septic. It is even more interesting when you consider that one side of the 6-lane street is on sewer and the other is not.

I’m in my first well/septic home these past 3 years. No issues. A bit too much iron in the water stains toilets and fences (irrigation hitting white vinyl). But no other problems.

i have lived with a well and septic most of my live. No additional problems and no monthly fee's either. I understand your and many others apprehension. But you are ruling out a lot of potential properties by excluding them.

Thanks guys. Good info.

I'm hearing:
1. Well and Septic can work fine as long as the well is good and care is taken w/ the septic. That being said, I might have been accepting when younger but as I retire, I'm looking for simple and less work/maintenance so well / septic may not be ideal for me. Unless, of course, I find land/house that is absolutely ideal with an a great well (clean and plentiful).

2. Location, location, location. And then use water/sewage and other services and tie breaking factors - good idea. I was using the latter to try and filter, but seems like it's better to do it the other way around.

I don't know if you feel like going to the trouble, but there may be an alternative in some places.

Go to the nearest large (or not so large) municipality's planning department and ask them to show you a map of existing water services (where the pipes are, where they go, and where they're expected to be installed next). Compare the map to a regular map; see if it extends out into an area where you'd like to live.

You may also look for large developments (suburbs, office/light industrial complexes, large plants, parks, racetracks, even show pens for livestock sales and rodeos) that are away from developed areas but have paid to tie their water service in to developed areas. If there's a property on an existing line between the two, it's relatively cheap to tie in. Just pay careful attention to what's uphill from you.

On very rare occasions it might be close enough that you're willing to pay to build the connection, but that gets expensive fast. Even tying in a house that's away from the road to water lines running along the road can be surprisingly expensive.

Either way, be aware of one thing in particular: if there are city water lines out where there isn't enough development to bother you, that's because the city expects that area to get developed within the foreseeable future. That may be a deal killer, but then again the size, siting, topography, etc., of your lot may make prospective neighbors a bearable prospect. Plus, if the city's running water lines, then they probably offer fire and police services there as well.

If anyone (like a developer or rural municipality) is setting up a "package" plant nearby, it may be viable to tie in to what they're doing too. The thing to be aware of is that package plants for water are far more common than package plants for sewage.

As for septic systems, learn about soils and think carefully about underground topography when looking at where your outflow will go.

You might also take a look (and maybe a sniff) at properties with septic systems that are neighbors to the property you're looking for. It may be a quick way to spot problems associated with septic in the area, and it'll help you avoid being downwind of a septic system that doesn't get the maintenance it needs.

On an unrelated note, stay away from hog farms and quarries, and think carefully about locations anywhere near gravel pits and sand plants.

Not too much maintenance on well and septic as far as I’m concerned. I dump a bag of salt in the softener every other week. Just the two of us so it doesn’t cycle as often. A properly operating septic system is pretty much maintenance free.

Most of my life I have had city water and septic. I do now. The current septic system is a modern dual tank system. Just fine for over a decade so far.

Some areas are more conducive to lots of underground water, and some is more user friendly than others. The places you have listed are not known for being saturated with moisture (with the exception of coastal areas)- that could be an issue for groundwater, especially seasonally. I have also heard that groundwater out west can be iron and sulfur heavy depending on location, so make sure to research it if a well is in your future.

I live in a karst region (limestone) in WV and it is riddled with underground caverns, water holding shelves, and excellent recharge. Additionally, our well tube is DEEP as is the depth the pump sits at. 680’ and 425’ respectively. I can see water easily from the cap so I estimate a water column of approximately 400’ to the pump. The water is clean and completely odor free and can be enjoyed directly from the faucet. Living in a limestone heavy area does have its own problems, namely scale so a softening system is necessary to keep toilets, sinks, and pipes clean and stainless.

As for the septic, we had it serviced when we moved in back in 2006 and an extra field line installed and it has been completely trouble free.

I think most areas now require at least an acre of land if you have a septic system. So when a town wants to develop neighborhoods with less than acre lots it is going to have to develop a sewer system.

Nobody has mentioned aerobic septic systems yet. These systems use sprinkler heads to distribute the treated effluent onto the yard for evaporation instead of a leach field where the effluent drains into the soil. Some areas require these systems due to local soil or habitat conditions. These systems require more maintenance as they have an small air compressor that feeds air into the treatment tank and runs 24/7/365, and they have a submersible pump in the final treatment tank to pump the effluent to the sprinkler heads. The sprinkler heads can get clogged and sometimes damaged by mowers and such. Because of the complexity of these systems some areas require periodic inspections of aerobic septic systems. My area outside of Fort Worth required an inspection that had to be reported to the county every 4 months. If these systems are not working correctly your are essentially spraying raw sewage all over your back yard which is frowned on by the local authorities and usually your neighbors as well.

quote:

Is there a rule of thumb when a town gets to be certain size, they convert to city/sewer system? Or how is it decided where water/sewer vs well/septic is used?

My 'general observation/ROUGH rule of thumb' with small towns & city water, suggests there IS often a correlation with extent of municipal side walks and roughly the edge of city water/sewer extent. And a possible correlation with size of the elevated water tank vs town size in relation to number of traffic lights on main street. Of course there are exceptions.

"Riparian property" on/near water of any size, in Oregon, most often demands a premium. Much attention should be developed regarding flood plain zoning as well.

I've lived on well water/home sewer system most of the last 70+ years. Mostly by choice.

I had well/septic. The only problem is that my flat acreage is so small, I owned no land usable for a new septic field when the old one failed. So now I have a well and a big holding tank, pumped once every five months or so.

The well is 40+ years old, and may last another 100. Unless you're very unlucky, it will be a one-time purchase.

A septic should last 50+ years, particularly if they used pvc for the piping and concrete for the tank. Clay pipes and metal tanks are bad news.

Keep the trees and bushes away from the field! Roots want water, and they'll grow a long way and do a lot of damage.

The water will be "hard", so you may want a softener, but I love the taste.

We have well and septic. Our water is better than city water...I actually take a jug in to work with me and put it in the fridge so I don't have to drink that city crap all night.

Our well is shallow, with an above-ground jet pump in the basement. We've lived here for 16 years, and had no problems until the pump seal started leaking last year. I decided to fix it myself, and took it apart, replaced the seal, and re-assembled it. At which point it sealed, but wouldn't build pressure. Turns out the pump manufacturer sent me the wrong part. This resulted in 2 days of running around trying to source the right parts locally, and tearing the thing down multiple times, calling a plumber (who was no help), and ultimately driving two towns over, getting the right parts, and fixing it myself. It was a PITA but next time will be easier because I know what I'm doing.

We knew the septic was undersized when we bought the house, but we didn't know how undersized. The house is over 100 years old, so there's no records of that stuff anywhere. It worked fine until we had kids, and more people started using the system, then it started backing up. I fought with it for a while, and ultimately decided we had to replace it. Paid a guy $7400 to come out and install a brand new system, huge concrete tank and PVC leach field. While he was digging, he found the old "leach field"...which was basically just a small dry well full of gravel. It's amazing it worked as long as it did. We're going on 3 years with the new system now, and have had zero problems.