I was on a seven day cruise on the Royal Caribbean ship Harmony of the Seas. Our last full day on the ship, Saturday the 14th, we were somewhere off the coast off Florida. Earlier in the day I had seen a Navy ship (not a carrier) off in the distance and we had seen various Naval helicopters during the day. At about 4:30pm, while on route to Port Canaveral, I was standing on the aft deck, watching a stand up flow rider demonstration, looking off the port side when a fighter jet went screaming by the ship.

I was on deck 15, so let's assume about 150 feet off the water. The jet was about even, or slightly higher than I was, maybe 200 feet, 250 feet at the most above the water. My best guess is that it was at least a football field away, but less than two football fields, so somewhere between 300-600 feet away.

The jet was traveling in the same direction as the ship, from aft to forward. It caught my eye a fraction of a second before the sound hit my ears. And oh my, what a sound! The screaming roar was something I had never heard before from that close up. In the few seconds I had to observe the jet, I could see the single engine (exhaust port) glowing red. The jet seemed to accelerate even more as it passed us, even though it was easily already traveling at hundreds of miles per hour. After it passed us, it started to climb, banking to its right (our starboard), crossing the path of the ship and continuing a steep climb. Within 10-15 seconds of my initial sighting of the jet, it was completely out of visual range.

Of all the cool things we did on our cruise, from swimming though caverns with stalactites, zip lining and visiting Mayan ruins, that fighter jet buzzing our ship might have been the coolest thing I experienced all week.

But it raised a question; what are the rules for interactions between military aircraft, the open water, and civilian ships? I would think the military would want its planes flying higher than 150-200 feet above the water in most instances? I would also think they would want them further away from a civilian ship than 500 feet or so?

But, regardless, if the pilot broke any rules, I am glad he did, because that will probably be the closest I will ever get to a plane of that type with its engines running full out. It was a heck of a few seconds.

I'm sure it was a mock target run- pretty cool. There are several vids on the webz of the same thing.

Well if it's a Navy or Marines jet, it probably was an F-35. If it's USAF, most likely either the F-35 or F-16.

We've had fighter jets buzz our ship more than once over the years when transiting off the eastern coast. It's always super cool.

Civilian aircraft - in uncongested area, may operate closer than 500' from the surface or water, but no less than 500' from any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure. If the jet maintained a distance of at least 500 feet from the boat (which it sounds like it did), then all is well.

In addition, the boat may have been positioned within the confines of an active (hot) MOA, or Military Operations Area, where the lower limit of that area may be all the way to the surface. Normally, the speed limit below 10,000' MSL is 250 knots indicated airspeed (KIAS), but in these MOA's, speed limits may and will be exceeded beyond 250 KIAS.

Too bad you didn't have a video cam going...

Neat. Glad it was friendly.

I can relate a day or snowboarding in NH a few year back, on canon mountain.
As we rode the lift up to the upper mountain on our way to the saddle that takes you to Bridal veil falls trail...we turned around as a roar of engines was approaching behind us. 1000’ or better above us.

This was the first time I had been so close to the A10. And not one but two.
We could see helmets and empty hard points(!) as they peeled off the 1st run.
There where 4 more runs up the ravine on canon mountain for these pilots..
We sat and watched for a spell. As I’m sure a few others did that day.

If your not familiar with Canon mtn. (Former home of “the man in the mountain”), it’s profile is like many in Afghanistan. You can work the math out.

erj beat me to it with the correct answer. Given your estimated distance, the jet was likely to be at least 500' away, and legal, so this was not "buzzing."

Note to erj: There are no MOAs offshore in that vicinity. Warning Area east of Melbourne (just a bit south of Canaveral) and Restricted Areas east of Canaveral.

On the topic of buzzing, the day that there was a low pass by a Cessna 182 over a shrimp boat east of St. Augustine, I wasn't even there that day! I have witnesses.

quote:

Originally posted by holdem:
I was on a seven day cruise on the Royal Caribbean ship Harmony of the Seas. Our last full day on the ship, Saturday the 14th, we were somewhere off the coast off Florida. Earlier in the day I had seen a Navy ship (not a carrier) off in the distance and we had seen various Naval helicopters during the day. At about 4:30pm, while on route to Port Canaveral, I was standing on the aft deck, watching a stand up flow rider demonstration, looking off the port side when a fighter jet went screaming by the ship.

I was on deck 15, so let's assume about 150 feet off the water. The jet was about even, or slightly higher than I was, maybe 200 feet, 250 feet at the most above the water. My best guess is that it was at least a football field away, but less than two football fields, so somewhere between 300-600 feet away.

The jet was traveling in the same direction as the ship, from aft to forward. It caught my eye a fraction of a second before the sound hit my ears. And oh my, what a sound! The screaming roar was something I had never heard before from that close up. In the few seconds I had to observe the jet, I could see the single engine (exhaust port) glowing red. The jet seemed to accelerate even more as it passed us, even though it was easily already traveling at hundreds of miles per hour. After it passed us, it started to climb, banking to its right (our starboard), crossing the path of the ship and continuing a steep climb. Within 10-15 seconds of my initial sighting of the jet, it was completely out of visual range.

Of all the cool things we did on our cruise, from swimming though caverns with stalactites, zip lining and visiting Mayan ruins, that fighter jet buzzing our ship might have been the coolest thing I experienced all week.

But it raised a question; what are the rules for interactions between military aircraft, the open water, and civilian ships? I would think the military would want its planes flying higher than 150-200 feet above the water in most instances? I would also think they would want them further away from a civilian ship than 500 feet or so?

But, regardless, if the pilot broke any rules, I am glad he did, because that will probably be the closest I will ever get to a plane of that type with its engines running full out. It was a heck of a few seconds.

As a civilian pilot, at one time involved with airshow flying, it was almost an expectation, even etiquette, that we buzz the (private) fields and the best buzz jobs were reserved for our fellow aviators and friends who, at that particular moment, were suffering under the misfortune of being stuck on the ground. Of course, our fellow aviators and friends on the ground returned our buzz-by "salute" with one of a few "salutes" of their own.

On a couple occasions, I've been fishing a favorite canyon and had a pair of F-16s come in low and buzz the canyon. The bastards manage to shut down the fishing for me for a while because of the engine roar...but, if I have to stop fishing for a while i might as well enjoy the show...and if I was in the cockpit of one of those fast-movers I'd do the same damn thing.

But I've never been buzzed by a fighter as low as you describe, and probably not as fast as you describe so you probably got lucky with a fantastic fly-by experience. I'm sure it happened too quickly to get any pics/ video...but kick ass nontheless.

I have a few guesses as to whether the pilot busted any regs, but I'll wait for our jet-jocks to comment...as long as the fly-by was executed safely it wouldn't bother me in the least.

I was at Virginia Beach a couple years back when some F/A-18s were doing flybys of the beach. Pretty good crowd gathered to watch when one plane does a long slow pass of the beach at probably 1500 ft. While everyone is watching him the second plane drops to the deck and absolutely BLASTS by. He might have been more that 500 ft from the shoreline, but he was almost certainly below 500 and WELL over 250 kts.

It. Was. Awesome. Kids were cheering. Adults were checking their shorts. And then cheering.

There is a story in Sled Driver from a SR71 pilot where he talks about inadvertently buzzing a group of observers at full afterburner after nearly stalling out the aircraft looking for them. That book is a treasure if you can find it.

quote:

Originally posted by holdem:
But, regardless, if the pilot broke any rules, I am glad he did, because that will probably be the closest I will ever get to a plane of that type with its engines running full out. It was a heck of a few seconds.

The sound of FREEDOM, my friend. The sound...of FREEDOM.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

Note to erj: There are no MOAs offshore in that vicinity. Warning Area east of Melbourne (just a bit south of Canaveral) and Restricted Areas east of Canaveral.

We saw and passed Cuba in the morning. I saw the mountains through the porthole in the gym and from the deck at breakfast. But then we did not dock in Port Canaveral until overnight. So at 4:30pm my best guess is that we were somewhere off the coast of Florida between Key West and Ft. Lauderdale.

quote:

Originally posted by copaup:

He might have been more that 500 ft from the shoreline, but he was almost certainly below 500

Offshore, there is no restriction on low altitude, below 500' is perfectly legal per regs, as long as no closer than 500' to people or things (my wording on "people or things," that includes boats, etc.).

So, skimming the waves with a few feet to spare is legal, but no closer than 500' to boats, piers, etc.

I used to fly a survey trip every week, with a marine biologist on board, from the 28th parallel (Sebastian Inlet in Florida) north to the 31st parallel (just over the state line, into Georgia). We did this at 200' altitude, and I stayed 500' offshore. Perfectly legal at 200' altitude.

I always love the part of the Blue Angels show where they have you watching the four plane for formation and a solo screams in from behind.

In the Coast Guard flying the Falcon we would fly between 500 and 1000 feet when actively searching for vessels or people in the water. I preferred 600 feet just to avoid any other traffic who might be flying around at 500 feet, such as helos in the gulf or Navy P3s out on patrol.

When making actual ID passes or aerial deliveries we would go down to 200 feet most of the time but our minimum was 100 feet.

I would leave the altitude select window at 600 so that passing 300 feet we got a little tone and I used that as a "100 feet to go" caution on my way down to 200 feet for an ID pass.

I would only go to 100 feet if I absolutely had to in order to do a free fall delivery (data marker buoy or message block) or the lettering on the vessel was too small to get at 200 feet.

I ID'd several cruise ships during my day, it was always fun to get to put on a mini airshow for the folks up on deck. Not as impressive as a fighter jet by any means but fun none the less. You know how small their lettering is, you always had to go to 100 feet to see it!

quote:

Originally posted by holdem:
But it raised a question; what are the rules for interactions between military aircraft, the open water, and civilian ships? I would think the military would want its planes flying higher than 150-200 feet above the water in most instances? I would also think they would want them further away from a civilian ship than 500 feet or so?

But, regardless, if the pilot broke any rules, I am glad he did, because that will probably be the closest I will ever get to a plane of that type with its engines running full out. It was a heck of a few seconds.

It's a process called "rigging" a ship to identify it - typically done from back to front to see the name on the stern and then ID any other distinguishing characteristics (hull numbers, flags, etc which may be present on a warship, etc).

If the aircraft was offset from the ship like you say, it is fine flying down to 200', as fast as it wants.

It's international waters and airspace after all.

I've rigged lots of ships and doing some of the dhows (shitty little boats) in the Arabian Sea / Gulf are some of the more memorable ones. In the F-14 you could REALLY get their attention, if you get my drift.

Glad you enjoyed it!

quote:

Originally posted by holdem:

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

Note to erj: There are no MOAs offshore in that vicinity. Warning Area east of Melbourne (just a bit south of Canaveral) and Restricted Areas east of Canaveral.

We saw and passed Cuba in the morning. I saw the mountains through the porthole in the gym and from the deck at breakfast. But then we did not dock in Port Canaveral until overnight. So at 4:30pm my best guess is that we were somewhere off the coast of Florida between Key West and Ft. Lauderdale.

There are no MOAs in that area -- offshore, southeast Florida. As long as the jet was at least 500' from the ship there was no violation in terms of proximity. An MOA, if there was one in that vicinity (and there is not), could remove the speed restriction of 250 knots, and probably the proximity restrictions, as the military "owns" all the airspace in an MOA when it is operational ("hot"). If an MOA is cold, it is just like any other airspace, all normal restrictions are applicable.

Interesting, unlike Restricted Areas, civilian traffic may enter an MOA even when it is hot, no permission required. This is at your own risk. My attention wandered once, ONLY once(!) and I inadvertently entered a hot MOA while on a flight with a student at the controls. I was brought back to reality by a couple of fast moving jets. The student was flying our airplane, but the responsibility was mine, I was the instructor. We un-assed the area very quickly, and it never happened again.

I've had it happen on several occasions when travelling/delivering a yacht, it's always a fun experience.

I've been present when the RAF and others fly past below us in Snowdonia! It's intense!

Mach loop

I fondly recall being buzzed by a B36 circa 1957 at Lucky Peak Dam construction site. A bomber wing about 50 miles away at times would fly training runs up & down the canyons of the Boise Front.

This guy was not very far above the canyon walls, directly overhead, and not moving all that fast.

Now 60+ years later, the power remains fresh in memory. 6 turning & 4 burning, as they say...

We winter near Destin Florida and have had jets come by the beach fast and low. If you are dozing in your Tommy Bahama beach chair, the noise will put an end to that. Definitely cool.