The side load on the tires.....

My whole career of flying jets I only had one that was “just land it in a crab” and that was the T-38. You never touched the rudder in that thing except while taxiing.

Every airplane since then has been “Line it up, cross-control that thing and land on centerline with no crab.”

The MD-11 in particular was very unforgiving of any sideslip or crab on landing.

But....now I am on a Boeing again (777) and the official word from them is do whatever you want up to about 30 knots of crosswind. Meaning straighten it out, land in a crab, whatever, it’s all good. Above 30 knots they say do NOT try to straighten it all the way out. At some point those big motors are going to scrape the runway, and they designed the gear to withstand a full-on max limit crabbed landing.

Having said all that, in the situation in the video I know I would have put in SOME crosswind controls. Just not all of them.

I hit a landing like that at the OLD Pittsburgh airport during a snowstorm back in '78. It was unsettling.

I’ve had bumpier landings on windless days- well done!

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

Straightening it out, or transitioning side slip to forward slip, the kick-out method, can present problems with underslung engines on a swept wing; as little as five degrees bank can result in an engine or pod strike on the runway.

Boeing is currently promoting crabbed landings in strong crosswinds especially in certain types. In large aircraft, particularly in strong gusty crosswinds, aligning with the runway is a mass management issue that's not at all the same as landing a Cessna.

Well, I haven't had an issue straightening a plane out as I described in an MD-11, 747, or 767, all of which have underslung engines *shrug*. Nor have any of the folks I have chatted with in the past week after seeing this.

Now having said that, our limitations section does say that zero crab landings are not recommended above 30 kts crosswind. However no one in our discussions about that has taken it to mean you don't even try. I suppose others take that guidance differently.

I've been the passenger looking out the side window for one of those once coming into Rockford, Illinois on a small regional jet during a storm. I was 9 years old at the time and thought it was great fun. The landing didn't scare me as much as the sudden zero-G moments followed by being slammed into the seat as we flew the storm on approach. Crap was strewn all over that cabin.

Back before I became a complete chickenshit when it comes to flying, I came into Schiphol looking down the length of the runway from my mid-cabin seat. I found it amusing back then.

Now I would probably be tucked in a fetal position mumbling a mixture of prayer and profanity.

I recall that the main gear of the B-52 can be canted for such situations. Nice feature.

Years ago, I was the only passenger on a flight from DFW to Lamar (CO) International . It was a 19 place commuter-type plane, probably something like a Dash 8.

The pilot and co-pilot welcomed me to my “personal charter.” They flew with the cockpit door open and the three of us visited on the flight north to eastern Colorado.

There was a strong crosswind at the airport in Lamar. The plane was crabbing severely on approach. I’m looking through the cockpit door and out the windscreen seeing essentially the same thing the pilots were seeing.

The landing was uneventful. One moment the tail is 45* from the nose, the next, we’re down, then safely taxiing to the terminal.

quote:

Originally posted by furlough:
The MD-11 in particular was very unforgiving of any sideslip or crab on landing.

Current MD-11 doctrine is land it in a crab.

quote:

Originally posted by Otto Pilot:

Well, I haven't had an issue straightening a plane out as I described in an MD-11, 747, or 767, all of which have underslung engines *shrug*. Nor have any of the folks I have chatted with in the past week after seeing this.

Boeing recommends a crabbed landing in the 747.

Boeing also recommends the same in the MD-11.

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
I recall that the main gear of the B-52 can be canted for such situations. Nice feature.

Yep,

I hate hangar talk

quote:

Originally posted by 104RFAST:
I hate hangar talk

ALT+F4

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

Boeing recommends a crabbed landing in the 747.

Boeing also recommends the same in the MD-11.

Not sure where you are getting your information, so I am going to quote to you out of the actual Boeing 747 Flight Crew Training Manual revision June 30, 2018 that is part of our training documents.

"On dry runways, upon touchdown the airplane tracks toward the upwind edge of the runway while de-crabbing to align with the runway. Immediate upwind aileron is needed to ensure the wings remain level while rudder is needed to track the runway centerline. The greater the amount of crab at touchdown, the larger the lateral deviation from the point of touchdown. For this reason, touchdown in a crab only condition is not recommended when landing on a dry runway in strong crosswinds." (page 301) {emphasis mine}

Now again. It says "crab only". In a hellacious crosswind, you are going to land with some crab, that's a given. But you have to at least do a little bit of work to swing that nose around.

So. Given that revision of the document is 4 months old, I showed you mine, you show me yours.

Otto -- I tried to send email to the address in your profile. It bounced back. If you have an alternate address, please let me know, the address in my profile should reach me.

Will do. Thanks.

Current limitation for landing the B757/B767 for Big Purple is 30 knots with braking action good to medium. Sideslip only (zero crab) landings are not recommended with a crosswind component in excess of 28 knots for the B757 or 26 knots for the B767. The worry is that you will drag an engine with the sideslip required with crosswinds that strong.

quote:

Originally posted by Otto Pilot:
Not sure where you are getting your information, so I am going to quote to you out of the actual Boeing 747 Flight Crew Training Manual revision June 30, 2018 that is part of our training documents.

I'm a former B747 captain, though currently not flying the type. I can absolutely assure you that the Boeing guidance, going back for several decades in type, has been that it's acceptable to land in a crab and far preferable in gusty conditions than playing mass management close to the ground by kicking out.

I'm looking at material forwarded by the Chief Pilot recently, from Boeing, regarding the MD-10/11, which begins, "This is specifically an MD-10/11 briefing. However, if the concepts are applicable, you can modify this briefing for other models. Boeing has changed the recommended crosswind landing technique for the MD-10/11 models. It is now acceptable to land in a sideslip (with zero drift) or in a crab, up to the maximum demonstrated crosswind. It is also acceptable to land in a combination sideslip and crab."