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The Siege at Ruby Ridge is often considered a pivotal date in American history. The shootout between Randy Weaver and his family and federal agents on August 21, 1992, is one that kicked off the Constitutional Militia Movement and left America with a deep distrust of its leadership – in particular then-President George H.W. Bush and eventual President Bill Clinton and Attorney General Janet Reno.

The short version is this: Randy Weaver and his wife Vicki moved with their four kids to the Idaho Panhandle, near the Canadian border, to escape what they thought was an increasingly corrupt world. The Weavers held racial separatist beliefs, but were not involved in any violent activity or rhetoric. They were peaceful Christians who simply wanted to be left alone.

Specifically for his beliefs, Randy Weaver was targeted by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) in an entrapping “sting” operation designed to gain his cooperation as a snitch. When he refused to become a federal informant, he was charged with illegally selling firearms. Due to a miscommunication about his court date, the Marshal Service was brought in, who laid siege to his house and shot and killed his wife and 14-year-old son.

Randy Weaver was, in many ways, a typical American story. He grew up in an Iowa farming community. He got decent grades in high school and played football. His family attended church regularly. He dropped out of community college and joined the United States Army in 1970. After three years of service, he was honorably discharged.

One month later he married Victoria Jordison. He then enrolled in the University of Northern Iowa, studying criminal justice with an eye toward becoming an FBI Agent. However, he dropped out because the tuition was too expensive. He ended up working in a John Deere plant while his wife worked as a secretary before becoming a homemaker.

Both of the Weavers increasingly became apocalyptic in their view of the world. This, combined with an increasing emphasis on Old Testament-based Christianity, led them to seek a life away from mainstream America, a life of self-reliance. Vicki, in particular, had strong visions of her family surviving the apocalypse through life far away from what they viewed as a corrupt world. To that end, Randy purchased a 20-acre farm in Ruby Ridge, ID, and built a cabin there.

The land was purchased for $5,000 in cash and the trade of the truck they used to move there. Vicki homeschooled the children.

The Weavers Move to Ruby Ridge

After moving to Ruby Ridge, Weaver became acquainted with members of the Aryan Nations in nearby Hayden Lake. He even attended some rallies. The FBI believed his involvement in the church was much deeper than it actually was – they thought he was a regular congregant of the Aryan Nations and had attended the Aryan Nations World Congress.

Both Randy and Vicki were interviewed by the FBI in 1985, with Randy denying membership in the group, citing profound theological differences. Indeed, the Weavers (who had some points of agreement with the Aryan Nations, primarily about the importance of the Old Testament) mostly saw their affiliation with the Aryan Nations as a social outlet. Living off-grid, the nearby members of the Aryan Nations were neighbors in remote northern Idaho.

Later, in 1986, Randy was approached at a rally by undercover ATF informant Kenneth Faderley, who used a biker alter ego of Gus Magisono and was currently monitoring and investigating Weaver’s friend Frank Kumnick. Faderley introduced himself as an illegal firearms dealer from New Jersey. Randy later encountered Faderley at the World Congress of 1987. He skipped the next year’s Congress to run for county sheriff, an election that he lost.

The ATF claims that in 1989, Faderley purchased two illegally shortened shotguns from Randy Weaver. However, Weaver disputes this, saying that the shotguns he sold Faderley were entirely legal and were shortened after the fact. The notes from the case show that Faderley purchased the guns and showed Weaver where to shorten them, which would constitute illegal entrapment. What’s more, the government preyed on the destitute nature of the Weavers, who lived in a small cabin in the woods with no electricity or running water.

The real purpose of the investigation was not to grab Weaver, but to use him to infiltrate a group in Montana being organized by Charles Howarth. In November 1989, Weaver refused to introduce Faderley to Howarth, and Faderley was ordered by his handlers to have no further contact with Weaver.

Randy Weaver Refuses to Turn Snitch

In June 1990, Faderley’s cover was blown. It was then that the ATF reached out to Weaver, stating that they had evidence he was dealing illegal firearms. They told him they would drop all charges if he would agree to become their new informant regarding the investigation of the Aryan Nations groups in the area. Weaver refused.

To coerce him into changing his mind, the Feds staged a stunt where a broken down couple were at the side of the road. Weaver stopped to help them and was handcuffed, thrown face down in the snow and arrested. He had to post his home as bond. Still he refused to become a federal informant.

The irony of the federal government’s desire to obtain informants within the Aryan Nations is that different branches of federal law enforcement and intelligence gathering occupied five of the six key positions in the organization. This means that the Aryan Nations were effectively a government-run shop, with agents spying on each other to ensure the integrity of an investigation – into an organization almost entirely run by the federal government.

The government had an obsession with the Aryan Nations due to Robert Jay Matthews, who was a member of The Order, a terrorist organization including members of the Aryan Nations. The FBI’s Hostage Rescue Team burned Matthews alive inside his own home.

Due to his ongoing refusal to snitch, Weaver was then arrested in January 1991, on illegal firearms sales charges. These charges stemmed from Weaver’s earlier “sale” of two shortened shotguns to Faderley, the undercover ATF agent – a sale which the feds later admitted constituted illegal entrapment.

Weaver’s court date was set for February 19, 1991, then changed to the next day. Weaver, however, received notice that his court date was not until March 20. He missed his February court appearance and a bench warrant was issued for his arrest. The United States Marshals Service wanted to allow Weaver the chance to appear for what he thought was his court date, however, the United States Attorney’s Office sought a grand jury indictment on March 14th – six days before his notice said he was due in court.

Already skeptical of the Feds after their repeated strongarm tactics, both Randy and Vicki saw this as further evidence that Weaver would not receive a fair trial. They increasingly isolated themselves on their Ruby Ridge farm, vowing to fight rather than surrender peacefully.

During the standoff, a voluntary surrender date was negotiated with the Marshals Service for October 1991, but the United States Attorney’s Office refused the settlement. The Deputy Director of the Special Operations Group of the Marshals Service, using evidence obtained through surveillance, believed that the best course of action was to drop the indictment, issue a new one under seal, and use undercover agents to arrest Weaver, who presumably would have dropped his guard. This recommendation was again rejected.

Continue reading Siege at Ruby Ridge: The Forgotten History of the ATF Shootout That Started a Militia Movement at Ammo.com.


We believe arming our fellow Americans – both physically and philosophically – helps them fulfill our Founding Fathers' intent with the Second Amendment: To serve as a check on state power.
 
Posts: 300 | Registered: January 10, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Husband, Father, Aggie,
all around good guy!
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What ever happened to Lon Horiuchi?
That guy is lucky that the Clintons were in office otherwise he would have faced something other than a Demerit in his HR folder.

How far we have come from Janet Reno fire walling justice for FBI and ATF misdeeds to now we have a good AG being accused by the press of doing the Presidents bidding by shining light on the FBI misdeeds of oh Spying on a Presidential campaign.

I still remember that Lon got to testify during the Congressional hearings behind a screen to keep his identity hidden. Like he was going to be reassigned back to the field quickly undercover for more sniping.

HK Ag
 
Posts: 3546 | Location: Tomball, Texas | Registered: August 09, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Experienced Slacker
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This was local news for me, seems like yesterday sometimes.
 
Posts: 7522 | Registered: May 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hop head
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met him at a gunshow many many years ago,

have a signed copy of his book at home,



https://chandlersfirearms.com/chesterfield-armament/
 
Posts: 10634 | Location: Beach VA,not VA Beach | Registered: July 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His Royal Hiney
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I heard of the news. I wasn't into the details. Thanks for posting.



"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
 
Posts: 20180 | Location: The Free State of Arizona - Ditat Deus | Registered: March 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
blame canada
Picture of AKSuperDually
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quote:
Originally posted by HK Ag:
What ever happened to Lon Horiuchi?
That guy is lucky that the Clintons were in office otherwise he would have faced something other than a Demerit in his HR folder.

How far we have come from Janet Reno fire walling justice for FBI and ATF misdeeds to now we have a good AG being accused by the press of doing the Presidents bidding by shining light on the FBI misdeeds of oh Spying on a Presidential campaign.

I still remember that Lon got to testify during the Congressional hearings behind a screen to keep his identity hidden. Like he was going to be reassigned back to the field quickly undercover for more sniping.

HK Ag


It is in my recollection that he was involved in Waco also. I'm not sure where I remember that from, or if I'm correct. It sticks out in my brain though.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The trouble with our Liberal friends...is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Reagan, 1964
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. It doesn't matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon will just take a shit on the board, strut around knocking over all the pieces and act like it won.. and in some cases it will insult you at the same time." DevlDogs55, 2014 Big Grin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

www.rikrlandvs.com
 
Posts: 13996 | Location: On the mouth of the great Kenai River | Registered: June 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Constable
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Had some interaction him a few years after the shootout. He was returning to Idaho with a new Dodge pickup. I couldn't see a temp sticker so stopped him . The sticker came off the rear window and was behind he seat.

We chatted for probably 20-30 minutes. NO issues whatsoever.

Talk about a guy who got screwed over by the Govt!

He asked me for my name so gave it to him. Few weeks later I get a signed copy of his book.
 
Posts: 7074 | Location: Craig, MT | Registered: December 17, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by HK Ag:
What ever happened to Lon Horiuchi?
That guy is lucky that the Clintons were in office otherwise he would have faced something other than a Demerit in his HR folder.

How far we have come from Janet Reno fire walling justice for FBI and ATF misdeeds to now we have a good AG being accused by the press of doing the Presidents bidding by shining light on the FBI misdeeds of oh Spying on a Presidential campaign.

I still remember that Lon got to testify during the Congressional hearings behind a screen to keep his identity hidden. Like he was going to be reassigned back to the field quickly undercover for more sniping.

HK Ag

If one reads the whole article, it doesn’t treat AG Barr kindly, blaming him for getting Lon off the hook.

I guess people can be complex, doing some things that are good and some others that are not so good.
 
Posts: 7163 | Location: Lost, but making time. | Registered: February 23, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
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quote:
Originally posted by AKSuperDually:
It is in my recollection that he was involved in Waco also. I'm not sure where I remember that from, or if I'm correct. It sticks out in my brain though.


He was.


______________________________________________
Carthago delenda est
 
Posts: 17799 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oriental Redneck
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Lon Horiuchi was hired by Troy Industries back in 2013. That hiring raised a firestorm on ARFCOM Troy's subforum. Not sure where he is now.


Q






 
Posts: 27946 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Husband, Father, Aggie,
all around good guy!
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quote:
Originally posted by slosig:

How far we have come from Janet Reno fire walling justice for FBI and ATF misdeeds to now we have a good AG being accused by the press of doing the Presidents bidding by shining light on the FBI misdeeds of oh Spying on a Presidential campaign.


HK Ag

If one reads the whole article, it doesn’t treat AG Barr kindly, blaming him for getting Lon off the hook.

I guess people can be complex, doing some things that are good and some others that are not so good.[/QUOTE]


slosig you are correct, I learned this after I posted and am trying to learn more about this.

Interesting, interesting.
 
Posts: 3546 | Location: Tomball, Texas | Registered: August 09, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Mark1Mod0Squid
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quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
Lon Horiuchi was hired by Troy Industries back in 2013. That hiring raised a firestorm on ARFCOM Troy's subforum. Not sure where he is now.


Dale Monroe was hired by Toy Industries. He was a "partner" sniper at Ruby Ridge who said he was ready to take the shot had Lon Horiuchi not taken the shot.

HS Precision used Lon Horiuchi as an expert endorsement in one of their advertisements in 2008.

Fuck be upon all of them.


_____________________________________________
Never use more than three words to say "I don't know"



 
Posts: 2033 | Location: AZ | Registered: May 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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"The irony of the federal government’s desire to obtain informants within the Aryan Nations is that different branches of federal law enforcement and intelligence gathering occupied five of the six key positions in the organization. This means that the Aryan Nations were effectively a government-run shop, with agents spying on each other to ensure the integrity of an investigation – into an organization almost entirely run by the federal government."

I'd like to see some actual proof of this. Who/where is the source? While it certainly wouldn't surprise me that the government was paying informants within the organization, running it? I'm skeptical.

The government had an obsession with the Aryan Nations due to Robert Jay Matthews, who was a member of The Order, a terrorist organization including members of the Aryan Nations. The FBI’s Hostage Rescue Team burned Matthews alive inside his own home.

An "obsession" with Aryan Nations? Maybe doing multiple bank and armored car robberies, shootouts with cops and murders resulted in some well deserved attention by all law enforcement? After shooting at FBI agents with a machine gun during the standoff Matthews had cause to wonder if he'd be killed, but ultimately he (Matthews) made the decision to burn alive (commit suicide). The FBI did make the decision for him. Fuck him.

The article quoted makes it seem like Matthews was killed for his political views and associations, rather than as a result of his actions (up to and including murder) as a domestic terrorist. Matthews and those he committed these crimes with are no more admirable than Donald DeFreeze (aka: "Cinque") and members of the Symbionese Liberation Army, a Left wing terrorist group that committed similar crimes, and also burned to death during their last stand. While it certainly doesn't appear that Weaver was involved in crimes as serious as either Matthews or DeFreeze and the shooting of Weaver's wife can't described as justifiable, it's BS to suggest (as the article does) that what happened to Matthews in any way excuses Weaver's refusal to peacefully surrender from the outset.

https://www.historylink.org/File/7921


"I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."
 
Posts: 10279 | Location: The Free State of Arizona | Registered: June 13, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Rey HRH:
I heard of the news. I wasn't into the details. Thanks for posting.


My pleasure sir, thank you for reading!


We believe arming our fellow Americans – both physically and philosophically – helps them fulfill our Founding Fathers' intent with the Second Amendment: To serve as a check on state power.
 
Posts: 300 | Registered: January 10, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of cjevans
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quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
Lon Horiuchi was hired by Troy Industries back in 2013 ...


LinkedIn says Oak Ridge Assoc. Universities, as a Snr Operations Planner.



We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~ Benjamin Franklin.

"If anyone in this country doesn't minimise their tax, they want their head read, because as a government, you are not spending it that well, that we should be donating extra...:
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Posts: 1886 | Location: Altona Beach | Registered: February 20, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by cjevans:
quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
Lon Horiuchi was hired by Troy Industries back in 2013 ...


LinkedIn - now at Oak Ridge Assoc. Universities, as a Snr Operations Planner.



We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~ Benjamin Franklin.

"If anyone in this country doesn't minimise their tax, they want their head read, because as a government, you are not spending it that well, that we should be donating extra...:
Kerry Packer

SIGForum: the island of reality in an ocean of diarrhoea.
 
Posts: 1886 | Location: Altona Beach | Registered: February 20, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Political Cynic
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He got away with murder. Big reason why I don’t think the ATF should exist.
 
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blame canada
Picture of AKSuperDually
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quote:
Originally posted by nhtagmember:
He got away with murder. Big reason why I don’t think the ATF should exist.

100% agree


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The trouble with our Liberal friends...is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Reagan, 1964
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. It doesn't matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon will just take a shit on the board, strut around knocking over all the pieces and act like it won.. and in some cases it will insult you at the same time." DevlDogs55, 2014 Big Grin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

www.rikrlandvs.com
 
Posts: 13996 | Location: On the mouth of the great Kenai River | Registered: June 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by AKSuperDually:
quote:
Originally posted by nhtagmember:
He got away with murder. Big reason why I don’t think the ATF should exist.

100% agree


Horiuchi was FBI Hostage Rescue if I recall right, not ATF. But, either way, he did get away with murder in my opinion.
 
Posts: 887 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: December 14, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
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If Horiuchi specifically is the "big reason why [you] don't think the ATF should exist", I suggest you re-examine which agency he worked for. Wink

quote:
Originally posted by tleo205:
Horiuchi was FBI Hostage Rescue if I recall right, not ATF.


Correct.
 
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