The County Judge of where I reside posted on FB that the B-17 crew was based out of the Houston northern suburb of Conroe.

Made me sick too.

That was about the most central, lethal place on a B-17 for that impact to occur.

There were many filmed angles of this incident. One I saw put the P-63 where he couldn't see the bomber but from that one angle, it seemed obvious that for about 1 second, the P-63 almost totally straightened his attitude from where he was pitched back (pulling up) in what was to be his ascending left turn. Had he kept his pitch, it looked like it was possible for him to sail right past the nose. Likely he would have still hit the nose, but I can see the fort landing with that damage. The P-63 definitely would have crashed anyway, cartwheeling into the ground from that low altitude.

A very dark day.

I was just reading about this tragedy as I was waiting for the TCU vs UT kickoff.

I have seen the Texas Raiders B-17 at a couple of air shows over the years but I cannot remember which ones right at the moment.

This is a terrible tragedy.
Prayers out to the families.

A friend took this picture this past June in Kennesaw GA. Sad day. Prayers for all those impacted.

I saw (I believe) both aircraft at an airshow in San Antonio in April of this year. The B-17 (I know this was Texas Raiders) was flying passengers, so it staged out of another airfield (the airshow was at Randolph AFB, and they do not allow passenger flights out of AF bases). I didn't get a pic of the B-17 airborne for some reason, but here is what I believe to be the P-63 involved.



It's an oddball aircraft. The engine is behind the cockpit. You can see the exhaust stacks behind the cockpit. It has car-style entry doors, and a honking big cannon in the nose firing through the hub. A shaft ran under the cockpit floor to the propeller. The US didn't do much with them (or the P-39 Airacobra that predated the P-63 King Cobra in the accident), but the Soviets LOVED them. They were great at low level (well, maybe not 'great,' but they downright sucked at high altitude) so the Sovs used the big cannon to bust German tanks.

It's fortunate that there were 'only' five passengers on the B-17. There could have been 2 or 3 times as many if they had paying passengers (they were selling flights at a booth at the air show I attended - I didn't get a flight but I did buy a Texas Raiders challenge coin).

I LOVE warbirds (my dream job would be flying these at airshows), but it sickens me to see all these crashes. This was just such a tragic accident. One single mistake destroyed a perfectly functioning B-17. Unlike the last crash (with the Collings Foundation B-17 '909'), this one did not (seemingly) have crap maintenance. It's the ultimate example of 'preventable accident.'

At a loss for words. This was preventable. Two beautiful aircraft and their crews lost.

Horrible indeed. Looked like a heat seeking missile.

Prayers for all involved and affected by the crash.

Horrible loss. The P-63 pilot was my Line Check Airman when I did Initial Operating Experience (IOE) after finishing sim training as a new-hire B737 First Officer. We talked A LOT about airshow stuff, as we had a common thread on the subject. He talked about that very P-63.

RIP, Captain.

My son and I rode in the B-17 a number of years back.

Sad

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:
Horrible loss. The P-63 pilot was my Line Check Airman when I did Initial Operating Experience (IOE) after finishing sim training as a new-hire B737 First Officer. We talked A LOT about airshow stuff, as we had a common thread on the subject. He talked about that very P-63.

RIP, Captain.

We were talking about this in the clinic yesterday. Almost 21 years here, I've probably seen him a time or two. Sorry for the loss of your friend, J. And everyone else who was forever lost.

Very, very sad day.

RMD

My Dad was a Ball Turret Gunner on a B-17 . There are so few of these planes remaining and even fewer that are airworthy . It's hard to watch ..

This B-17 was based out of Hooks airport a few years ago, I knew one of the crew and we got to go out to the hanger one day when they had a work day.

I remember learning this B-17 was originally a ~submarine or radar model and that it was converted to the current configuration.

What a tragic thing for all.

HK Ag

quote:

Originally posted by selogic:
My Dad was a Ball Turret Gunner on a B-17 . There are so few of these planes remaining and even fewer that are airworthy . It's hard to watch ..

The loss of life is very sad and obviously the worst part here.
I think it's past time that people reconsider the risk/reward value of these airborne displays of WW2 planes flying together.
I'm not talking about the flights just to get there, although that will be a problem at some point too. I just did a search to see how many B-17's are airworthy and it shows 9 and about 38 in any condition that are left in the US.

We lost 20% of flying B-17s in the last couple years.

This is not an acceptable rate of loss. . .

Keep them flying, but reduce the 'formation' flights like happened here.

I love warbirds more than anybody I know, and I love to see them flying. But there are too many accidents and losses.

I'm not going to watch the video, just as I chose to not watch the Hogue crash video. I just don't want to see it.

This wouldn't have been a lead story on news sites had it not been for the video, whereas an event which holds significance for a society at large would be the lead story with or without a pictorial element.

I understand the interest and the honest concern of those of you here. However, the new media's attraction to the shock aspect of tragedy, I find disgusting. The deaths of these men and the shock of the people who were there- it's ratings for these reptiles, and ratings = $$$

I agree. I know nothing about these airshows. Not looking to place blame. But why that little plane was anywhere near that formation of B17's seems completely reckless.

Hearing that little girl ask her dad if that was supposed to happen and then realize it was something terrible is heartbreaking and something she will never forget unfortunately.

Tragic loss and horrible for those who witnessed it. I agree with others who say these vintage aircraft should fly solo without other aircraft nearby. It may even be time to move them into museums in order to preserve the history.
I would guess that (despite careful preservation and restoration) the designers of WWII aircraft did not plan for them to be still flying 80 years later.

We still fly B52's on missions. They first flew in the early 50's. Planes can fly for a long time. Not much can withstand a crash at 200+ knots.

I disagree with you guys. Fly these things as long as they can be flown. For the most part, your kids don't give a shit about WWII warbirds. Once we pass, the amount of people who care will dwindle. Lets enjoy them while we can.

Of course it can be done safer. This one was a fiasco that could have been avoided. Lots of blame to go around.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
For the most part, your kids don't give a shit about WWII warbirds. Once we pass, the amount of people who care will dwindle. Lets enjoy them while we can.

This is a ridiculous statement. .

I do not know about continue flying them or not. Seems like doing so in as safe a manner as possible is doable.