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Originally posted by PASig:
You have to also understand that this term is really offensive to most Jews; imagine hearing about a new church called "Christians for Mohammed" or something like that.

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Originally posted by chuck416:
^^^this^^^
Every one of the disciples (as well as Jesus himself) were Jewish. Actually, it should not be a surprise to any Christian that there are Jews who identify Jesus as the Messiah, the Christ. Every prophecy concerning the Messiah pointed to the fact that he would be a Jew, specifically from the lineage of King David.

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Originally posted by YellowJacket:

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
You have to also understand that this term is really offensive to most Jews; imagine hearing about a new church called "Christians for Mohammed" or something like that.

That doesn't seem like the same thing to me at all. For, in fact, it was Jews in the first place, who believed in Jesus Christ as the Messiah.

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Originally posted by mark123:
There is a Messianic Jewish synagogue nearby and I was thinking of going to learn about the Torah and the real culture of the biblical times.

It shouldn't affect my regular church attendance unless I decide to dedicate time to only that.

While I was brought up as a traditional protestant, for a long time I was a member of a Sabbath/Holy Day keeping Christian church and quite frankly it makes more sense to me and I miss the real teaching. I guess I've become disenchanted with the milk and want some meat (but not mixed, right?) <---sorry, kosher joke.

I'm sure every messianic synagogue welcomes gentiles but I'm not sure what to expect. I've sent a message to them directly but here are the questions I asked:

Are gentiles welcome?
What attire is expected?
Are yarmulke required for men?
Are husbands and wives separated in the congregation?
Is there someone to explain Hebrew terms to us if we don't understand?

Can you think of anything else I should ask?

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Originally posted by YellowJacket:
That doesn't seem like the same thing to me at all. For, in fact, it was Jews in the first place, who believed in Jesus Christ as the Messiah.

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Originally posted by SgtGold:

quote:

Originally posted by YellowJacket:
That doesn't seem like the same thing to me at all. For, in fact, it was Jews in the first place, who believed in Jesus Christ as the Messiah.

And they were called Christians for their beliefs. I have no issue with whatever someone believes in, but a Jew who believes in Christ as the messiah is called a Christian.

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From the Abrahamic Covenant a simple definition of Jewishness can be deduced. It lies in the repeated statement that a nation will come through the line of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and thus defines Israelis, this nationality is not confined to the State of Israel alone; it includes all the Jewish people no matter where they are. It is a nationality based on descent.

Biblically speaking, the Jewish people are a nation. Today we are a scattered nation but we are, nevertheless, a nation. We are a nation because we are the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The implication of this definition is that no matter what a Jew does, he can never become a non-Jew; no matter what the individual Jew may believe or disbelieve, he remains a Jew. A Negro who is a believer, Moslem, or Buddhist remains a Negro. A Chinaman who becomes a believer remains Chinese; a Chinaman who remains a Buddhist also remains Chinese. The same is true of the Jew, whether Orthodox, Reform, atheist, or communist. If a Jew chooses to believe that Yeshua is his Messiah, he, too, remains a Jew. Nothing, absolutely nothing, can change the fact that he is a descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!

At this point, the problem comes up of children of mixed marriages. These children are usually designated half-Jewish and half-Gentile. The theology of Judaism teaches that Jewishness is determined by the mother: if the mother is Jewish, then the children are Jewish. But again, this is a departure from the biblical norm and is therefore
rejected by Messianic Jewishness. In the Scriptures, it is not the mother who determines Jewishness but the father; consequently, the genealogies of both the Old and New Testaments list the names of the men and not of the women, except in cases where a mother was notable in Jewish history. Thus, if the father is Jewish, the children are
Jewish. King David was definitely Jewish although his great-grandmother, Ruth, and his great-great-grandmother, Rahab, were both Gentiles.

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We finally come to the point toward which we have been working: defining Hebrew Christianity or Messianic Jewishness. In the common view, the term "Hebrew Christianity" is a contradiction. One can be either a Jew or a Messianic believer; but to be both at once is, in that view, an impossibility.

One Jewish writer stated that the term "Jewish Christian" challenges logic. Another writer limited the title to Jewish believers in the Messiah during the first century but not thereafter. This view was held by a number of my former professors at the American Institute of Holy Land Studies. They used the term "Jewish Christians" in relation to Jewish believers during the first century but did not recognize the term as valid for Jewish believers today. But they never explained what they considered to be the difference between the first century Jewish believers and those of the twenty-first century.

What, then, is a Hebrew Christian? If a Jew is a descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, which we believe to be the proper, biblical definition; and if a Christian is one who has personally, by his own decision, accepted Yeshua of Nazareth as his Messiah; then a Hebrew Christian is a Jew who believes that Yeshua is the Messiah. By faith, Jewish believers align themselves with other believers in the Messiah, whether Jews or Gentiles, but nationally they identify themselves with Jewish people.

A Messianic Jew, therefore, must acknowledge that he is both a Jew and a believer in the Messiahship of Yeshua. If a Jew accepts baptism solely to lose his identity as a Jew, he is by no means to be considered a Messianic Jew; he is a renegade, a traitor, and an apostate.

A Messianic believer is proud of his Jewishness. He is also proud of his faith in the Messiahship of Yeshua. The experience by which a Jew becomes a believer is just as much a mystery as that by which a Gentile becomes a believer. The experience can be described, but it cannot be explained. The center of this experience is the person of Yeshua the Messiah, although the causes, which brought it about, may differ. Perhaps it was the testimony of another Messianic Jew, the printed word, preaching, or the reading of the New Testament. The causes vary, but the results are always the same: Yeshua the Messiah becomes the object of faith and trust.

It is clear from the Scriptures that Messianic believers never lose their Jewishness. Jewishness and Messianic Jewishness are not contradictory terms; each complements and fulfills the other. This is one of the reasons Jews often prefer to call themselves "completed Jews" rather than "converted Jews." The term "converted" means "you were this, but you are no longer that." When we use the term "converted Catholic," usually we mean that the person used to be Catholic, but he is no longer Catholic. Or we say that he is a "converted alcoholic" and mean that he used to be a drunk, but he is no longer a drunk. However, we cannot properly use the term converted Jew. This implies that a believer used to be a Jew, but he is no longer a Jew. Jewish believers always remain Jews without exception. Jewish believers do not refer to themselves as converted Jews; we are converted sinners. We are completed Jews because belief in the Messiahship of Yeshua completes our Jewishness; it does not negate it.

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Originally posted by SgtGold:

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Originally posted by YellowJacket:
That doesn't seem like the same thing to me at all. For, in fact, it was Jews in the first place, who believed in Jesus Christ as the Messiah.

And they were called Christians for their beliefs. I have no issue with whatever someone believes in, but a Jew who believes in Christ as the messiah is called a Christian.

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Originally posted by YellowJacket:

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Originally posted by SgtGold:

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Originally posted by YellowJacket:
That doesn't seem like the same thing to me at all. For, in fact, it was Jews in the first place, who believed in Jesus Christ as the Messiah.

And they were called Christians for their beliefs. I have no issue with whatever someone believes in, but a Jew who believes in Christ as the messiah is called a Christian.

No. They were still Jews and were referred to as such throughout the New Testament.

Now, Ithere is always the discussion of the definition of a Jew vs a Hebrew... Is a Jew simply someone who practices Judaism? And is a Hebrew someone born in the lineage of Abraham but who does not practice Judaism? As posted above, those lines have been blurred and all but erased in our society. And therefore, "Jews" has come to mean a people group, or nationality, instead of a religion.

A very important part of Judaism is the search and anticipation of the Messiah. Fervently practicing Jews, I assume, are still looking for their Davidic Messiah. Messianic Jews who believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, have already "found" their Messiah.

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Originally posted by SgtGold:

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Originally posted by YellowJacket:
That doesn't seem like the same thing to me at all. For, in fact, it was Jews in the first place, who believed in Jesus Christ as the Messiah.

And they were called Christians for their beliefs. I have no issue with whatever someone believes in, but a Jew who believes in Christ as the messiah is called a Christian.

quote:

Originally posted by YellowJacket:
Now, there is always the discussion of the definition of a Jew vs a Hebrew... Is a Jew simply someone who practices Judaism? And is a Hebrew someone born in the lineage of Abraham but who does not practice Judaism? As posted above, those lines have been blurred and all but erased in our society. And therefore, "Jews" has come to mean a people group, or nationality, instead of a religion.

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Originally posted by TigerDore:

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Originally posted by SgtGold:

quote:

Originally posted by YellowJacket:
That doesn't seem like the same thing to me at all. For, in fact, it was Jews in the first place, who believed in Jesus Christ as the Messiah.

And they were called Christians for their beliefs. I have no issue with whatever someone believes in, but a Jew who believes in Christ as the messiah is called a Christian.

But they did not give up being Jewish. I think that the most common misconception is that a Jewish person must stop being Jewish to accept Christ as the Messiah.



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