I watched a couple videos of a prosecutor/defense attorney youtuber who discussed the most probable scenarios you would need to deploy a defensive firearm. According to him the are not the classic street attack situations, the were:

1. Inside your house or on you home property, like yard, garage, driveway, home invasion, that sort of assault.

2. While driving and you're blocked or attacked by a road-rager.

It makes since I guess, but I didn't know that these two situations account for around 80% of all defensive firearms cases that end up in court according to his personal experience in prosecuting and defending, and by various of government and other studies over the years.

I'd like to hear what you guys think and know, especially from out favorite and respected LEOs.

What say you ?

Sounds right to me. Also, accosted in a parking lot when getting in or out of your car, and though unlikely, intervening in a robbery or assault of a person unknown to you.

That's good to hear that confirmation. I've usually felt pretty comfortable inside my own house, but I think I've become complacent sitting in front of the tube after a long day at work. But if I had to give myself any credit, I've never been 100% comfortable on my own property working in the garage, driveway, on my mower, or working on a project in the backyard, I'm pretty much armed most of the time in those situations. I can't arm myself easily going to and from work since my employer does not allow firearms, and I don't always arm myself driving to the big box hardware or grocery store, but it seems most of the time I'm not armed, they fall under this 80% scenario bucket.

Looks like it's time to reconsider, and also change my strong side carry to carjack carry while in my vehicles.

I'm not LEO, so that's not relevant. But I live in a very rural area. In general the things I need to deal with are animals of various kinds. So no idea of the statistical likelyhood but my personal experience at Home is a drug crazed person invading your property is the most common. Happened a couple of times now. I have had a number of other encounters when in other more concenentrated urban areas but I consider risks in urban areas just a fact of life.
FWIW>

You will never encounter me in any kind of store without two firearms on my person. Nor the gas station, nor out for a leisurely drive, or a walk in my neighborhood, and so forth.

You just can't know when you'll need to defend yourself or someone else.

Naturally, there are places where you have no choice. Federal buildings, courthouses and the like.

Your employer? Unless your vehicle is subject to search, you can leave your pistol there. Yes, theft is a possibility, but most employee parking lots are more secure places than the parking lot for stores or other public places.

Robbery or a car jacking

Animals. Both wildlife and the "pets" with shitty owners.

Short version - The only time I have ever cleared leather was hiking alone in Alaska. I didn't shoot the wolverine, but was prepared to.

Longer version - I started a hike wearing shorts and a waterproof windbreaker and it wasn't long until our group of 3 reached high enough elevation for there to still be snow in July (it had been a record snowfall the past winter). Snow depth started to reach the top of my hiking boots about the time we hit a fork in the trail with one direction going to a lake and the other direction was the loop back to the trailhead. The other 2 were also wearing shorts, but wanted to hike to see an alpine lake and wouldn't listed to reason that no lake would be seen because it'd be snow and ice covered. I said "fuck it" and hiked back to the trailhead on my own. I ended up in a bowl alone with a wolverine, and I drew my .454 Casull and held at low ready. Wolverine scampered off down the trail I was heading so I waited 5 minutes, reholstered, and then headed down the trail. Never saw the wolverine again. About 45 minutes after I reached the parking lot, the other two showed up and said "you were right, could only see snow and we were afraid we'd fall through the ice." Duh!

One exception to my two gun rule- when I go to the dentist, I leave my G42 and ankle holster at home. Leaning back in the chair, there is a good chance the rig would be exposed if my pants leg were to ride up a bit, and I don't want to scare my dentist or their staff.

Not to derail the thread Para, but if you don't mind me asking, where/how do you carry 2 and do you carry any extra mags/reloads?

This thread has me thinking about it, as I usually have one in my vehicle when I am in it and one on my person on my hip iwb. I usually wear shorts, so carrying a second is difficult with an extra mag for my primary. I have a good friend who was sitting at a red light and some guy jumped in his car with a gun. Fortunately, everything turned out alright for him/my friend as the scumbags gun jammed as he pulled the trigger at his head after my buddy did everything the guy wanted him to do-money,drive him around,etc.. Some people are just flat out evil.

I drew a handgun after getting followed most of the way home and getting blocked in by a road rager. I had nowhere else to go and the driver was about to exit their vehicle with a baseball bat. So on page one, you’ve got a respondent who has experienced the #2 scenario. I carry 147gr HST’s with the express thought that if I ever need to shoot through auto glass like I almost did that day, I want it to retain enough energy and mass to do it.

quote:

Originally posted by patw:
Not to derail the thread Para, but if you don't mind me asking, where/how do you carry 2 and do you carry any extra mags/reloads?

Currently, I'm using a Wilderness Safepacker for my G19 and if I can get comfortable with it, I'm transitioning to a 9.45 Industries QAPL

I tried it as a waist-worn fanny pack but that was no good for me. It made the pistol feel twice as heavy as my strap-worn Safepacker. I don't know why. Now I'll try it as a sling bag, a mode of carry with its own challenges which I won't go into right now.

And yes, both of these holsters allow for a spare magazine, which I always carry.

It is my understanding that the most likely scenarios involve a victim who is also involved in illegal activities. For those of us who aren't committing felonies, and who aren't making bad choices like going to shady bars at 2 am, the chances of an attack are very low, and the likely scenarios might be different than what a prosecutor has seen.

Specifically, home invasions or assaults on one's property are uncommon, at least around here according to the news, unless one is involved in criminal enterprise or have an ongoing personal conflict.

Domestic situations, sexual assaults, and road rage are what make the news here.

Animals concern me more than humans with my usual activities.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by patw:

Currently, I'm using a Wilderness Safepacker for my G19

May I ask how you carry this and whether anyone has noticed it and questioned it?

I have two of these but use them only for storage when I am at home.

Thanks,

RMD

On a strap, Sam Browne-style, so that the pack rests on my right hip, and no one has ever even glanced at it, at least not that I'm aware. This is no exaggeration. In several years of wearing it all over creation, I have never seen anyone look at it, much less, ask about it.

Per Virginia law, the only time I can deploy a defensive firearm is when I am in fear of death or grievous bodily harm at the hands of an assailant I did nothing to provoke.

Anything else is, legally, brandishing a firearm, a felony.

A few years ago a guy was convicted of brandishing for unholstering in his car and placing the pistol in the console.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig2340:
Per Virginia law, the only time I can deploy a defensive firearm is when I am in fear of death or grievous bodily harm at the hands of an assailant I did nothing to provoke.

Anything else is, legally, brandishing a firearm, a felony.

A few years ago a guy was convicted of brandishing for unholstering in his car and placing the pistol in the console.

That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard of. I would move today.

quote:

Originally posted by rduckwor:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

Currently, I'm using a Wilderness Safepacker for my G19

May I ask how you carry this and whether anyone has noticed it and questioned it?

My wife (.357 revolver) and I (P245) both use SafePackers. Mine is an unobtrusive grey, rather than the usual tactical black. Nobody has ever given it a second glance, leave alone questioned it.

One situation that is potentially concerning around here, is the ATM at Publix grocery stores. Just about every Publix that I have seen has a walk-up ATM on the sidewalk outside the store. I don't use these, but I cringe every time I see somebody withdrawing cash with absolutely no situational awareness.

When you've cut up one of the working girls who insulted your manhood and the Schofield kid is just outside the outhouse door

In my personal life, rabid/sick/wounded animals are the only times I’ve fired my side arm.

I think it’s very likely, as an urban pedestrian, and also challenging to draw/carry/shoot. (My solution is usually a revolver in my pocket/I should carry another cross draw, IWB.)