The pic of the undamaged DDG 62 is indeed DDG 62

video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hmK4XfYLPQ

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

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Originally posted by f2: yup, that's the wardroom - clicking away with their thumbs on smart phones while sporting the iphone hunch. you realize that this was the FITZGERALD's wardrooms fuck up, right?

If you look at what I posted, its pretty clear where I believe the fault will land. Top to bottom on the Fitz crew.

Of course from the top down, that is the way it works.

The only question was it systemic command issues or simply a few bad apples, inattention, etc that made all the holes line up.

Was the crew manning the bridge untrained (no paper work), not trained correctly, or was the training gun decked?

With absolute authority come absolute responsibility. The CO's career is toast unless a terroristic type mutiny occurred.

I bet there will be more than one blamed. CIC, OOD, for sure, even if they were right in rules of the road, navigator, XO, all of them have some splaining to do.

Do they still use maneuvering boards? Or are those on iPads now?

I agree with the assessment regarding the number of personnel who need to get their dress uniforms squared away.

As RHINO points out - was it systemic or a few bad apples who, as fate would have it, just happen to be on watch the same time?

My guess - it was lack of discipline and those four or six on the bridge were doing something together (watching TV/tablet porn, etc) and lost situational awareness whilst doing something they had performed many times in the past without anything going sideways.

And nothing goes sideways fast on a ship - it happens as an unstoppable example of applied physics in mass and velocity with minimal friction applied.

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:



My guess - it was lack of discipline and those four or six on the bridge were doing something together (watching TV/tablet porn, etc) and lost situational awareness whilst doing something they had performed many times in the past without anything going sideways.

It's hard to imagine all those balls being dropped at once, but these things do happen.

I was playing a dance in a very popular, very experienced 8 piece band, on a stage immediately adjacent to the entry door for patrons just a few yards to our left. In the midst of playing a very energetic number, an uncommonly attractive young woman arrived, and all 8 of us stopped playing to look simultaneously. Pretty embarrassing!

Japanese authorities initially said the collision occurred at 2:20 a.m. because the Philippine ship had reported it at 2:25 a.m. and said it just happened. After interviewing Filipino crewmembers, however, the coast guard changed the collision time to 1:30 a.m.

http://nypost.com/2017/06/19/j...itzgerald-collision/

Don't forget the starboard lookout in the blame game - I wonder what it looks like to see a huge container ship slowly get bigger and bigger and bigger right in front of your face?

Looks like possibly Combat Systems her thing was amongst the damaged sections, two FCs, Two GMs and one ST. Also a YN and ON. RIP shipmates

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Don't forget the starboard lookout in the blame game - I wonder what it looks like to see a huge container ship slowly get bigger and bigger and bigger right in front of your face?

It was two hours into a mid watch in addition to and after cumulative up to 18 or so hour workdays. SN Smuckatelli may not have even been awake.

Only stood starboard bridgewing lookout a few nights as a young PO3 when in the North Atlantic and extra lookouts were needed for eyes on icebergs and stuff. It was cold as hell out there even in extreme foul weather gear ... maybe colder. It was dark, very dark out there. Ocassional handheld night vision use was confusing while staring into "nothing" for hours. Sound powered headset covers the ears. The mind wanders, eyes start to play tricks.

Not making excuses, because there are none, for not standing a proper watch, inadequate training or failure to notify if any of those be the case ... but I feel ya

I'm sure that just like a plane crash or train crash, there was a perfect storm of shit going wrong all at once

quote:

Originally posted by Tommydogg:
Looks like possibly Combat Systems her thing was amongst the damaged sections, two FCs, Two GMs and one ST. Also a YN and ON. RIP shipmates

I believe all those guys were trapped in the flooded compartments. FC's, GM's, and ST's are all part of the Combat Systems Dept. or whatever we're calling it in today's Navy. Which is to say they usually share a berthing compartment, or at least we did back when I(FC1) was in. Deck 2 forward berthing compartment.

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:


And if their radio room was destroyed, their delay in notification makes sense. Except one would expect a Navy destroyer to have some satellite phones, and their skipper being nearly killed and 7 missing sailors would seem to be a reason to use one.

Even though my experience was on a smaller warship and over 40 years ago, I cannot believe there is not an AUX Radio room quite a bit aft from main Radio.

If there were a notification to the captain of imminent danger (apparently not), I would hope it was by way of immediate general quarters bong activation and 1MC. May have added a few seconds and possibly saved a life. Sadly it sounds as though most were in their racks and caught totally by surprise. Either right up until the last moment, the bridge thought they could avert, or never saw it coming at all ... or froze in disbelief and shock.

quote:

Originally posted by p.d.:

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:


And if their radio room was destroyed, their delay in notification makes sense. Except one would expect a Navy destroyer to have some satellite phones, and their skipper being nearly killed and 7 missing sailors would seem to be a reason to use one.

Even though my experience was on a smaller warship and over 40 years ago, I cannot believe there is not an AUX Radio room quite a bit aft from main Radio.

There were also limited independent non-secure comms on the bridge of ships I've served aboard. VHF. and in some cases, portable handheld phone devices.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/19/...sh-timing/index.html

after interviewing the ACX Crystal's crew, the Japanese coast guard revised its crash time estimate to 1:30 a.m.

The US 7th Fleet is maintaining that the collision occurred at 2:20 a.m. -- and both US and Japanese officials have declined to explain why there is a discrepancy regarding timing.

this is ridiculous

Timing will play a critical role in determining exactly how the collision happened, particularly as the shipping data from Marinetraffic.com appears to indicate that the ACX Crystal made a sharp right turn at close to 1:30 am -- the time that the Japanese coast guard said the crash occurred.

On Sunday, Vice Adm. Joseph Aucoin, commander of the US 7th Fleet, would not speculate on how the accident occurred, but said there would be multiple investigations into the collision, including one by the Navy's Judge Advocate General and one by the US Coast Guard.

Other investigations could come from the Japanese and Philippine authorities, because of where the accident took place and the Philippine registration of the container ship.

video of ADM Aucoin, he says

There was a large gash under the water line near the keel of the ship

the water flow was tremendous

there wasn't a lot of time in those spaces that were open to the sea

Two compartments that house 116 of the crew were flooded

**************
sounds like the ship was in very real danger of sinking

The Navy sailors on that ship did an amazing job of saving her, especially considering many had to go into action from a dead sleep. It had to be just chaos, albeit controlled chaos.

I'd say many of those sailors became men that night.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
The Navy sailors on that ship did an amazing job of saving her, especially considering many had to go into action from a dead sleep. It had to be just chaos, albeit controlled chaos.

I'd say many of those sailors became men And women that night.

Agreed.

Especially with the Captain out of the action, either the XO or someone took over to fight the ship well, after doing such a horrible job in the minute preceding the collision.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
Prayers for those lost and their families:

The seven sailors identified were:

– Gunner’s Mate Seaman Dakota Kyle Rigsby, 19, from Palmyra, Virginia

– Yeoman 3rd Class Shingo Alexander Douglass, 25, from San Diego, California

– Sonar Technician 3rd Class Ngoc T Truong Huynh, 25, from Oakville, Connecticut

– Gunner’s Mate 2nd Class Noe Hernandez, 26, from Weslaco, Texas

– Fire Controlman 2nd Class Carlos Victor Ganzon Sibayan, 23, from Chula Vista, California

– Personnel Specialist 1st Class Xavier Alec Martin, 24, from Halethorpe, Maryland

– Fire Controlman 1st Class Gary Leo Rehm Jr., 37, from Elyria, Ohio

https://news.usni.org/2017/06/...ilors-flooded-spaces

Prayers for the families and friends of these seven sailors.

At work, I'm on a high-profile team, but unfortunately it has one member who is the typical East Coast, white, fifty-something, liberal who has all of the standard mental disorders associated with liberalism. This morning, we're the first two people on the conference call and he brings up the Fitzgerald incident. I comment that it's tragic and mindboggling (as in, how could a sophisticated Navy vessel hit or get hit by a container ship?), and he replies back, "Exactly. I thought our military was further along, but most of the names sounded foreign." I was dumbfounded. What kind of piece of shit looks at this tragic loss of life and thinks the flooded compartments should've had more white people?

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
The Navy sailors on that ship did an amazing job of saving her, especially considering many had to go into action from a dead sleep. It had to be just chaos, albeit controlled chaos.

I'd say many of those sailors became men And women that night.

Agreed.

Especially with the Captain out of the action, either the XO or someone took over to fight the ship well, after doing such a horrible job in the minute preceding the collision.

Yes and women. Absolutely.

Training training training is what it's all about. When calamity strikes, and trained well, most are very purposeful and calm while focused and determined. Training just takes over. You know where you are on the team and confident in yours and your shipmates skills. I say most because some just come undone. On one ship, the 49 radar equipment room had a sliding door, like a pocket door, to the space. We went to GQ unexpectedly for a real deal external threat inside Gaddafi's "Line of Death" (late 80's) and an ET2 who had gone in and out of that door countless hundreds if not thousands of times ... forgot it was a sliding door, hung onto the knob pushing and pulling with all his might. Wouldn't let go. Others in the space had to literally physically knock him away to exit the space. Fortunately that brought him to his senses but for a moment, his mind just froze.

I'll leave the link, you can judge for yourself.


A Janes Intelligence Review ship tracking analyst argues that there may not have been anyone on the Crystal bridge.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...erald-collision.html

lots of pics you will recognize

Also lots of discussion over the collision time disagreement

The longer this disagreement goes on, the more credibility the Navy will lose if they are wrong and just about everyone else was right.

******************

http://gulfnews.com/news/ameri...cargo-ship-1.2046080

The US navy and Japan’s coastguard are conducting separate inquiries, but will likely be cooperating, a spokesman for Japan’s transport safety board told AFP.

Japanese coastguard investigators will be interviewing the Filipino crew of the Japanese-owned container ship, although the US has primary jurisdiction in investigating accidents involving military.

Citing local investigators, Japan’s top-selling Yomiuri newspaper said Monday that the damage on both ships suggests they were travelling in the same direction when the crash occurred

Under maritime law, the container ship had an obligation to avoid a collision if it was trying to overtake the destroyer from behind.
But if the container vessel was approaching from the US ship’s right side, the destroyer had the obligation to give way, another Japanese coastguard spokesman said.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
I'll leave the link, you can judge for yourself.


A Janes Intelligence Review ship tracking analyst argues that there may not have been anyone on the Crystal bridge.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...erald-collision.html

lots of pics you will recognize

Also lots of discussion over the collision time disagreement

The longer this disagreement goes on, the more credibility the Navy will lose if they are wrong and just about everyone else was right.

His reason for stating that he said was because the ship was on autopilot. The guy is a complete idiot. These ships are on autopilot 99.9% of the time, NOBODY is going to hand steer them in open ocean. It's SOP to be on autopilot all of the time unless you're going in or out of port, or in tight quarters that need constant course adjustment. Autopilot is going to be more accurate at maintaining course than a human 99% of the time, especially at night where you don't have a point of reference to steer by (visually). Yes, you can steer by compass but by the time the compass starts turning, you're already turning.

On a freighter of that size, it's going to take 30 minutes to muster crew, have them inspect the bow and water tight compartments, figure out what happened and report back.

I just did a 280 mile trip over 2 days of 22 hours and hand steered maybe 1.5 hours of that 22 hours. And, this was on a 62' sportfish.