Have been on a plateau with my workouts on the Peloton for a while, still get the occasional PR, but not the increases I was seeing earlier on.

Main issue, I think, is that I feel like I just can't get enough air to keep pushing & need to back off to avoid overdoing it.

Started running again, after a little over a year off, just a mile around the block, currently around a 8:44 pace.

Any easy exercises to improve oxygen supply/capacity in an endurance workout, like a run or longer bike?

Have you considered seeing a cardiologist? For about 4 years my pulse rate was showing in the 40's & no doctor considered that a problem. I would start feeling out of breath sooner than expected. After finally being referred to a cardiologist two places in my heart were creating early valve opening. My heart was sending out blood too early. The cardiologist said that I could have been born with the problem & it got worse as I got older. My actual pulse rate was not in the 40's but in the 70's & all blood pressure machines were reading incorrectly. Surgery corrected the problem.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
Any easy exercises to improve oxygen supply/capacity in an endurance workout, like a run or longer bike?

I ran sprints & hurdles in high school, then I started training for VK type runs (vertical kilometer, Redbull 400, etc.).

I was never a long-distance runner until a few years back, when I decided to switch my focus on ultra-distances.

The Maffetone (MAF) method, which focuses on low-heartrate training, really helped me improve my long-distance endurance. You may have to swallow your pride and start off in an 11-minute to 13-minute/mile range, but I personally found it amazing how quickly and far I was able to run with a low-heartrate after a few months of using this method.

You can also train your body to run off of fat instead of carbs with the MAF method, which I have been doing. This prevents you from "hitting the wall" that everyone talks about in long-distance running.

I now frequently do 20+ mile runs in the mountains in a fasted state (20-24 hours of no food), and feel great with tons of energy because the body is running off of oxygen & fat rather than relying on limited glycogen stores.

Long story short, many people think you need to push harder to improve your endurance, but it actually does the opposite... it improves your anaerobic endurance, not your aerobic endurance. Slowing way down, and training in a low-heartrate range is key for improving long-distance endurance.

You can look up the Maffetone method, but the general suggestion is take 180, then subtract your age. ALWAYS stay below that number when you're training, and you'll be improving your cardiovascular/aerobic endurance.

For example, if your 40, your number would be 140, and you'd want to train at a pace that will keep your heart rate within 110-140 bpm.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
Any easy exercises to improve oxygen supply/capacity ...

Yes, but, before you do them: Given the symptoms you describe I strongly recommend you schedule a cardio stress test, and possibly a leg echo, while you're at it.

I'm seventy-two years old and, as recently as <looks...> the end of May was doing HIIT. Even being an ex-smoker as of July 2010, after having smoked a pack a day for forty years, I was never short of breath.

I just finished a MICT (Moderate-Intensity Continuous Training) session on my rower. Thirty minutes at a 2:35/500m pace. Avg. HR: 121. Max. HR: 129. (I'm easing-in back up to HIIT after having taken a couple months off.) Was breathing through my nose, comfortably, the entire time.

I'm 37, 6ft & about 165lbs

Guess I should add that at a low heart/low intensity rate range, I could go all day. It's at high intensity that I run out of gas, usually chasing my buddy at work's PR on the bike.

On the peloton, I'd have no issue holding a 18-20mph pace for quite a while, just the peak efforts that I'm gassing out.

Ran the mile block after work today, after a 30min lunchtime Peloton ride [around 10 miles], about a 8:16 pace & felt fine the whole time

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
I'm 37, 6ft & about 165lbs

That's great, but, it says nothing about your cardiovascular fitness.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
It's at high intensity that I run out of gas, ...

From your earlier description: You're not running out of gas. You're running out of air. You wrote "I feel like I just can't get enough air to keep pushing."

Unless you have impaired lung function, the next most likely culprit is your cardiovascular system. Specifically: Your heart.

Before pushing it any harder I think it wise to get it checked out.

My experience is that you need to have a variety of stressors in your exercise program to make continued improvement, or else your body simply adapts to your workout regime.

I started working out again last November, riding a stationary bike. In the beginning, my cardio was so bad almost any exertion took me close to max heart rate (HR).

So I worked up to 30 minute moderate intensity workouts on the bike. That gradually grew to up to 60 minute rides at much higher resistance. Last Sunday I rode 65 minutes at four times the intensity of where I started last November.

Then, back in April at the suggestion of members here, I began mixing in HIIT training on the bike. That really changed my endurance for the better. Combining the longer, lower resistance rides with HIIT two or three times a week drove my resting pulse rate down 10 beats/minutes in about three months (I also dropped another 25 pounds).

Today, my cardio involves:

- Long rides against resistance (60 minutes, zone 2 HR)
- HIIT rides of 30-45 minutes (zone 2 and 3 HR)
- Walking (no knees left to run) on a treadmill for 35-60 minutes using progressive increased resistance (I add an extra 0.5% incline or increase the pace by 0.2 mph every 100 steps until I can't breathe nasally).

My objective is 200ish minutes per week of zone 2-3 level cardio.

This is in addition to my resistance training using a mix of body weight exercises, free weights, machines, and resistance bands. I normally do 45-60 minutes of cardio followed by 45-60 minutes of resistance training.

Good luck with the endurance!

Hills.

That’s the best way I know.

That and alternating your normal speed or a tad slower with intermittent sprints.

It’s not a fast road to improvement, but you will slowly see it.

quote:

Originally posted by WingedMedic:
Long story short, many people think you need to push harder to improve your endurance, but it actually does the opposite... it improves your anaerobic endurance, not your aerobic endurance.

That's not strictly correct.

HIIT (High-Intensity Interval Training) has been shown to increase VO² Max, aerobic efficiency, and anaerobic efficiency.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig2340:
Then, back in April at the suggestion of members here, I began mixing in HIIT training on the bike.

Today, my cardio involves:

...
- HIIT rides of 30-45 minutes (zone 2 and 3 HR)
...

Sorry, but, that's not HIIT.

HIIT is defined as high-intensity hitting 80-95% of MHR, which, depending upon how one calculates the five zones, is somewhere between low-to-mid Zone 4 and low-to-mid Zone 5. The intervals are either resting or in aerobic zones, the latter of which are generally somewhere in Zone 3 or lower.

What you describe is LISS (Low-Intensity Steady State, Zone 2) and MICT (Moderate-Intensity Continuous Training, Zone 3).

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:
That and alternating your normal speed or a tad slower with intermittent sprints.

SIT (Sprint Interval Training) is something else again. That's where you go all out for a short amount of time (generally very short, because you're supposed to really go all out), with "rest" periods at or below you're AT (Anaerobic Threshold, Zone 3 or lower).

I'm 68 years old now and part of what keeps me going is intelligent exercise. Freshman year at Ohio State way back in 1973 I had to write a paper for the phys ed class I was taking. That paper was a comparison between Aerobic and Anaerobic exercise. Guess what I found in all the research papers I used for that paper. It was pretty simple.

The only thing that Anaerobic exercise does is increase Strength. So you can sprint faster. It won't help you sprint further it will just allow you to sprint faster for a limited distance. It's why people doing HIIT will hit a plateau, or a WALL. I will also note that too much it will damage the Heart. When you work in an Oxygen Deficit you are starving the muscles of Oxygen and the Heart is one of those muscles working in an Oxygen Debt.

Aerobic Exercise is the good exercise. There is nothing better for increasing the Aerobic Capacity that long duration working in a fully Aerobic state. In today's speak Zone 2 and the low end of Zone 3. The rule is that you should be able to conduct a normal conversation without gasping to get a bit more air. In this state you'll work up a good sweat, your heart will be bathed in Oxygen so it's getting real benefit and so freaking what if it takes 2 hours to go 10 miles. The point is you spend 2 hours working at a rate that is supremely beneficial to the heart, lungs, and all the muscles being worked. Do that and you will find your VO2 Max climbing at nice steady rate without any plateaus.

For a more modern method that is based on what I learned back in 1973 take a look at Dr. Phil Mafetone's web sight.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by WingedMedic:
Long story short, many people think you need to push harder to improve your endurance, but it actually does the opposite... it improves your anaerobic endurance, not your aerobic endurance.

That's not strictly correct.

HIIT (High-Intensity Interval Training) has been shown to increase VO² Max, aerobic efficiency, and anaerobic efficiency.

I wasn't specifically talking about HIIT, I was talking about the common mistake runners & bikers make of training at an intensity where they feel they are "pushing" themselves, but can sustain the pace. Most athletes are drawn to that zone, but many professional trainers/physiologists call it the "dead zone" because it is actually one of the least beneficial zones to train in.

For untrained individuals, yes, HIIT is considered one of the best and quickest ways to improve overall fitness as you stated. However, there comes a point where it's aerobic benefits tapers off and plateaus.

For improving overall aerobic endurance and efficiency in trained athletes, long & slow is considered the best method.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
I'm 37, 6ft & about 165lbs

Guess I should add that at a low heart/low intensity rate range, I could go all day. It's at high intensity that I run out of gas, usually chasing my buddy at work's PR on the bike.

On the peloton, I'd have no issue holding a 18-20mph pace for quite a while, just the peak efforts that I'm gassing out.

Ran the mile block after work today, after a 30min lunchtime Peloton ride [around 10 miles], about a 8:16 pace & felt fine the whole time

Yes, you can hold that pace... but at what heart rate? If your 8:16 pace is with a HR below 133 bpm, that's pretty good (but I doubt your HR is that low). Low HR training doesn't just let you "run forever," it increases your heart's efficiency, and you will eventually see yourself running faster and faster at the same low hear trate (ie: zone 2).

If you ARE running an 8:16 pace under 133bpm, then continued low-HR training will eventually get you down to a 7:16 pace then 6:16 pace @ sub 133bpm.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
...Guess what I found in all the research papers I used for that paper. It was pretty simple.

The only thing that Anaerobic exercise does is increase Strength. So you can sprint faster. It won't help you sprint further it will just allow you to sprint faster for a limited distance. It's why people doing HIIT will hit a plateau, or a WALL. I will also note that too much it will damage the Heart. When you work in an Oxygen Deficit you are starving the muscles of Oxygen and the Heart is one of those muscles working in an Oxygen Debt.

Aerobic Exercise is the good exercise. There is nothing better for increasing the Aerobic Capacity that long duration working in a fully Aerobic state. In today's speak Zone 2 and the low end of Zone 3. The rule is that you should be able to conduct a normal conversation without gasping to get a bit more air. In this state you'll work up a good sweat, your heart will be bathed in Oxygen so it's getting real benefit and so freaking what if it takes 2 hours to go 10 miles. The point is you spend 2 hours working at a rate that is supremely beneficial to the heart, lungs, and all the muscles being worked. Do that and you will find your VO2 Max climbing at nice steady rate without any plateaus.

For a more modern method that is based on what I learned back in 1973 take a look at Dr. Phil Mafetone's web sight.

This x1000. This is the conclusion of practically all legitimate studies I've read. Even those who don't follow the Maffetone method all agree: the "long run" is your most important run of the week.

Why? Because the long run is long and slow, and THAT is what improves your aerobic fitness the most. Even VK runners (who spend zero time at a low heat rate during races) place a significant importance on the long run, because aerobic fitness is the foundation that must be laid before focusing on specific event-focused training.

Thanks for all the replies, think I'll try the lower level work, as I'm probably working at the upper HR levels with how I'm going now.

Started running to add in some variety to the mix, planning on adding some weights [just dumbbells (Bowflex dial-a-weight type) for now, limited space] to our little gym/office soon, too.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:


Started running again, after a little over a year off, just a mile around the block, currently around a 8:44 pace.

Any easy exercises to improve oxygen supply/capacity in an endurance workout, like a run or longer bike?

Run 2 miles, then up it to 3 if you can. Try to push yourself to get better times.
Take long deep breaths rather than short ones. I try to inhale for 3 strides then exhale for 3 strides to keep a measure.
After doing that for over 2 years my lung capacity has increased a ton and my average mile time is getting close to 8:00 flat. My legs muscles really feel it but I no longer get winded where as before I'd always run out of air before I got any kind of cardio benefit.
I too have limited space and work with a small bench, dumb bell set, and a pull up bar. It's worked out great for me and there are a few really good web sites that will show you how to get a full workout with just that equipment and body weight. My routine is 2 days on, one off, repeat. So day one I run and do weight training, day two I ride a bike and weight train, day three is my rest day.
What I eat on my on days makes a huge impact on my performance too. I really notice if I didn't get enough nutrition or if I ate something crappy. It feels really good to be fueled up and be able to push my limits and also keeps me motivated to make good culinary choices.
In my 20's I did the whole scientific thing where I measured my heart rate, and measured down to the gram every supplement and vitamin I was using and made all of it way to hard. Now I just yee-haw it and go off of how my body feels and a little common sense. At 45 I am in better shape than I've ever been and have the lungs of a marine mammal. lol

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
I'm 68 years old now and part of what keeps me going is intelligent exercise. Freshman year at Ohio State way back in 1973 ...

You're basing your opinion on research that's 50 years out-of-date.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
The only thing that Anaerobic exercise does is increase Strength.

That's not strictly true, but, let's run with it.

As we grow older we naturally tend to suffer, to some degree or another, from sarcophenia. Why is this germane to your point? Upon which do you think one is more likely to be called to do as part of their daily lives: Have mobility and be able to lift and move things (incl. their own bodies), or run long distances?

I don't know about you, but, I can't recall the last time I needed to run long distances, but, I lift and move things every day of my life.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
So you can sprint faster.

Real-life scenario: You're crossing the street when some doofus, paying more attention to their phone than their driving, and in a hurry, turns through a red light. Which will be more valuable to you at that point-in-time: The ability to sprint out of harms way, or run long distances at a slower pace?

Anaerobic exercise, strength training, specifically, also results in improved bone mineral density, thus offsetting another common aspect of aging: Osteoporosis, thus making one more immune to injury from falls.

Lastly: HIIT has been shown in recent studies to improve VO² Max, aerobic efficiency, and anaerobic efficiency. See, for example: The Effects of High Intensity Interval Training vs Steady State Training on Aerobic and Anaerobic Capacity

HIIT also promotes fat loss far more effectively than any steady-stated cardio training, even MICT, particularly visceral fat. (That's fat around your internal organs you can't see, and it's deadly.)

There's even some anecdotal evidence to suggest HIIT and SIT may reverse the effects of COPD in some individuals.

(Btw: I smoked a pack-a-day for forty years. About the time I quit smoking my PCP at the time suggested I had symptoms of COPD. Today my blood oxy runs around 96-97% on-average. When I talked to my current PCP and my cardiologist, and mentioned what the prior doc had said, they both said they saw no indicators of COPD.)

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
I will also note that too much [HIIT] will damage the Heart. When you work in an Oxygen Deficit you are starving the muscles of Oxygen and the Heart is one of those muscles working in an Oxygen Debt.

Too much of anything can be damaging. But, let's see some cites showing HIIT will damage the heart. (Meanwhile, at seventy-two years of age, my cardiologist says my cardiovascular system is in fine form.)

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
There is nothing better for increasing the Aerobic Capacity that long duration working in a fully Aerobic state.

Simply not true. The best way to improve aerobic performance is a mix of long, continuous aerobic training (LISS/MICT), combined with shorter, more intense training (HIIT/SIT). See, for example: How to Increase Aerobic Fitness

Like I said: Your science is fifty years out-of-date.

ETA: HIIT and SIT were precisely what I was thinking of in my initial response to P250UA5. Thing is: IMHO one should not attempt these unless they know they're in relatively good cardiovascular health already.

And, by "know" I don't mean "believe." Even if one believes they're in good CV health a nuclear stress or stress echo may not be a bad idea. I'm reminded of one of my past doctors telling me of a 35-year-old (IIRC) patient that played pickup ice hockey 2-3 times a week complaining of something and having a stress test subsequently reveal an 80% blockage of the LAD artery. Aka: "The widow maker" artery.

For those who do not know: Ice hockey is an exceedingly cardio-stressful activity.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ensigmatic,

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by Sig2340:
Then, back in April at the suggestion of members here, I began mixing in HIIT training on the bike.

Today, my cardio involves:

...
- HIIT rides of 30-45 minutes (zone 2 and 3 HR)
...

Sorry, but, that's not HIIT.

HIIT is defined as high-intensity hitting 80-95% of MHR, which, depending upon how one calculates the five zones, is somewhere between low-to-mid Zone 4 and low-to-mid Zone 5. The intervals are either resting or in aerobic zones, the latter of which are generally somewhere in Zone 3 or lower.

What you describe is LISS (Low-Intensity Steady State, Zone 2) and MICT (Moderate-Intensity Continuous Training, Zone 3).

I was unclear with what I wrote.

The zone 2/3 I mentioned is the lower intensity state of my HIIT workout. The higher intensity intervals still run the HR up to what for me is 85% max HR.

A rather lengthy discussion on High-Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) and Sprint Interval Training (SIT) vs. Moderate-Intensity Continuous Training (MICT): A Perspective on High-Intensity Interval Training for Performance and Health

quote:

5 Conclusions

HIIT is a common component in the training prescription for high-level athletes. The potential application of HIIT for health in less trained individuals is also not novel but is becoming increasingly recognized.

In an endurance sport context, there is little question that HIIT is an essential component of a comprehensive training program, but the specific training intensity distribution and optimal types of interval training sessions to enhance performance are still unclear. It is likely that the optimal training intensity distribution will vary by sport and by the individual athlete, and this also needs to be periodized across a macrocycle. HIIT optimization is an area of research that may enhance current endurance sport performance, with several emerging techniques showing promise for improving performance in highly trained and elite athletes.

HIIT optimization is also required in a health context. Given the strong, inverse relationship between cardiorespiratory fitness and morbidity and mortality, research is warranted to identify the most effective HIIT strategies in various populations using robust study designs. The mechanistic basis of HIIT responses, and why the method may facilitate greater improvements specific to performance and health markers, is beyond the scope of this review but also warrants further investigation. This includes the fundamental question of whether differential responses between HIIT and MICT are related to the intrinsic alternating pattern of higher- and lower-intensity efforts or mainly the higher-intensity work per se.

Some research shows that HIIT can elicit larger improvements in selected physiological markers related to oxygen delivery and utilization as compared to a matched volume of MICT. Most of this work has employed active but not well-trained individuals, and the physiological basis of responsiveness in highly trained individuals who already have a well-developed capacity for aerobic energy metabolism is likely different.

[Mildly edited to ease reading.]

Thanks for that, been reevaluating my exercise habits from what's in this thread.

I think I was in more of a HICT level, to bastardize the terminology. Going too hard chasing numbers.

I've backed the effort down & find myself not too far off the gassed-out efforts, with more fuel left in the tank.
I think I was pushing myself to a near deprivation state then having nothing left until a longer recovery. Usually bounce back quickly once off the bike.

I stopped 'chasing the numbers' and keep more of an eye on my own levels [HR, perceived exertion]
Need to invest in a better HR monitor. Curious how accurate the Citizen CZ is for HR. Wish I hadn't gotten rid of the bit of gear I had when I sold my first road bike.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
Thanks for that, ...

You're welcome

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
I think I was in more of a HICT level, to bastardize the terminology.

As you found out: That's not sustainable.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
Need to invest in a better HR monitor. Curious how accurate the Citizen CZ is for HR.

Dunno. What I do know is, while wrist-based HRMs have come a long way since the days when they tended to be wildly inaccurate, chest-strap HRMs are still more accurate and reliable.

I'm partial to Polar, but, that is in part due to the fact nearly all gym gear with an HR display is compatible with Polar's 5KHz signal.

When I'm just walking I rely on my Apple Watch. I did some tests with it on a treadmill, years ago, and found that, at least at lower exertion levels, it tended to stay w/in ±1 BPM of my Polar chest strap. At higher exertion levels, and particularly if my arms were moving about vigorously (E.g.: Work segments of HIIT): Not so much.

I added the Polar receiver to the PM-3 monitor on my Concept2 rower so I could more-accurately track HR. My new-to-me Rogue Echo Bike's monitor has Polar 5KHz compatibility built-in.

I'm using a Polar chest strap transmitter that must be 10-15 years old, if it's a day. I think I've replaced the battery twice?