SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Billings, MT man shoots a fleeing shoplifters. *UPDATE Pg 5* He has been charged.
Main Page The Lounge Billings, MT man shoots a fleeing shoplifters. *UPDATE Pg 5* He has been charged. Topic ClosedGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools |
Only the strong survive |
I made a citizens arrest in Goleta, CA in 1976. The kids were stealing sheets of plywood from a commercial site behind my apartment. I called the Sheriff and since they hadn't arrived and the pickup was starting to leave, I got my shotgun and ran out to stop them. I got them out of the truck and spread eagle on the ground and took their keys to the pickup and when back inside to call the Sheriff again. They finally arrived from both ends of the alley behind the apartments and two of them had started to unload the plywood while the other one ran off. The Sheriff gave me a card to read them their rights and then turn them over to the Sheriff. I was up to 2 AM filling out paper work. The next day, one of the Deputy's stopped by and said they were involved with the shop teacher at high school and had a warehouse full of building material. He also gave me his card and said if I had any trouble to give him a call. They also watched the place for some time. In today's world, I would use a camera to get their picture and let them leave. The kids had no ID on them and the Sheriff had to trick the parents to find out who the other kid was that ran off. Also a lot of things have changed since then and you can get charged with brandishing a weapon today. 41 41 | |||
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safe & sound |
A citizen's arrest isn't something said, it's an action. The police can detain you while they investigate a crime. A citizen can not. That is why a citizen must actually witness the crime (in most cases). When a citizen detains a criminal, that is a citizen's arrest. This is why you better be damn sure a crime was committed. If you detain an innocent person, then you can be charged with all of those related crimes: kidnapping, false imprisonment, etc. Take a store's security guard for example. They witness a shoplifter, and detain that person until the police arrive. Let's also consider the states that prevent a police officer from making an arrest for a lower crime, without a warrant, that he/she didn't personally witness. In those states victims of crime (personal witnesses) have to "instruct" the officer to make the arrest because the officer wasn't a witness. Another form of citizens arrest. Now, let me give you a recent example of what in all likelihood would be considered a citizens arrest. It also happened in Montana recently, was discussed here on the forum, and the guy was treated as a hero. You see, he may have been a police officer in his state, but he has no police power in Montana. Yet he detained a criminal at gunpoint (legal citizens arrest) until the local police arrived to take physical custody. If these events were so rare, so unheard of, and so unnecessary, you wouldn't see so many state statutes in so many states that spell it out. https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/9150049914 I also noticed that Missouri recently clarified their statues as it relates to deadly force used during a citizen's arrest. Still not Texas, but better than it was. | |||
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| Rail-less and Tail-less |
I know it's an action which is why I wrote "people who say" as in this dick-bag that actually told the couple "I'm making a citizens arrest" like a fucking dork. _______________________________________________ Use thumb-size bullets to create fist-size holes. | |||
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| safe & sound |
I don't know about Montana, but I believe most states require you to state what you're doing and why. Same as if an officer places you under arrest. So long as it's justified I don't see why a police officer saying those words isn't dorky and somebody else saying them is. Anybody who carries a concealed firearm, with or without a plastic badge, should be well versed on their state laws concerning citizens arrest. Should you ever hold somebody at gunpoint, those may very well be the laws that protect you or get you criminally charged. | |||
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To digress a bit..... I wonder if the incidence of shoplifting has decreased in Billings since then ??  | |||
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Well, I was thinking of shoplifting up there but I damn sure ain't gonna do it now. | |||
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| Oh stewardess, I speak jive.  |
Attempting to arrest or detain someone without having an LE uniform on, or being in an obvious LE vehicle, or displaying a valid LE badge sounds like an exceptionally bad idea. I highly doubt most folks would believe such attempts by Joe Public were real or valid, and saying something about "citizens arrest" doesn't make it sound any more legitimate, IMO. I suspect most would be much more likely to assume Joe Public Wannabe Cop was a criminal themselves, attempting to engage in kidnapping, robbery, or some other crime. This is largely why the vast majority of LE are uniformed, clearly marked, and otherwise. Being on the muzzle end of a legitimate undercover officer would be an incredibly tense moment, for instance, some person in plain clothes suddenly barking orders and pointing a weapon at you? In a moment when seconds count? How could most trust it to be real? | |||
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| safe & sound |
You're looking at it through the wrong lense. You haven't done anything wrong. You're not a criminal. You wouldn't ever expect to be arrest by anybody for any reason. You'll notice the couple that fled in this story didn't stop down the road and call 911. Why not? Some guy pretending to be a cop just shot at them for no reason. They knew exactly what was going on, which is why they ran. | |||
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Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
I wonder if firing at the tires of a fleeing minivan of a person who just stole a pair of Calvin Klein knickers is allowed anywhere in the law...  ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan | |||
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| safe & sound |
I have already said I didn't agree with his actions as far as the shooting itself. That said, I wonder how many of you would fully support a police officer shooting at the driver in the exact same scenario. At least I'm consistent. I don't agree with shooting at a fleeing vehicle. I'm mostly addressing the fact that a citizens arrest is not "taking the law into your own hands". It is a legal action available to citizens, codified into law, and not all that uncommon. | |||
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Member |
UPDATE: Suspects in Billings, MT Shooting Identified. http://www.kxlh.com/story/3463...outside-rimrock-mall But wait, they weren't arrested, and their identities haven't been released. Oh Oh. The opinions expressed in no way reflect the stance or opinion of my employer. | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
So, what this is really about is your pronounced dislike of law enforcement. You're simply using this incident to make your point in a roundabout way. It's like that old bit from Bill Cosby: Parents aren't interested in justice. They're interested in quiet. Any member whose behavior in this forum generates multiple complaints to me over an extended period of time, will eventually get my attention. Don't tell me I'm mistaken or that I'm misinterpreting the content of this thread, because that avenue is a dead end. I imagine this is a good time for me to once again point out that SIGforum supports law enforcement 100%, and anyone who expresses negative opinions about the police over an extended period, will eventually come to grief in this forum. That's a guarantee. ____________________________________________________ "I am your retribution." - Donald Trump, speech at CPAC, March 4, 2023 | |||
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Patent Pending |
Link to original video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rwEvysDpNm0 ************************************************* NRA Life Member Capital punishment means never having to say, "You again?" | |||
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Thank you Para. ----------------------------- Always carry. Never tell. | |||
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| safe & sound |
4589, I don't dislike you because of your law enforcement background. I dislike you because you're an ignorant, thin-skinned child who throws tantrums and calls people names. Para, E-mail sent to your bellsouth address so I don't clutter your forum. | |||
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| Member |
But it is OK for you to be a arrogant asshole and call me names. This has nothing to do with my opinion. It is about yours that you keep forcing on me a others here as fact. If you don't want to get called out for being a jerk here don't act like one. Real simple. ----------------------------- Always carry. Never tell. | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower |
Moderated status for the both of you. I will not be defied in this forum, gentlemen. Moderated Status, 7 days. When I say that's enough, that's what I mean. Defy me again and I'll remove you from the forum altogether. ____________________________________________________ "I am your retribution." - Donald Trump, speech at CPAC, March 4, 2023 | |||
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Bit of an update. This story brings up so very good points. http://billingsgazette.com/new...04-ad02054a514d.html ----------------------------- Always carry. Never tell. | |||
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And he is has been charged. Took a long time, but I knew this was coming. http://www.kpax.com/story/3621...rest-at-rimrock-mall ----------------------------- Always carry. Never tell. | |||
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| safe & sound |
Two misdemeanors both of which apply to him firing his weapon when he shouldn't have. No charges for attempting to arrest the criminals because I suspect he was legally justified in doing so. Hope he learned a lesson and it's surely going to cost him some money. I doubt he faces any jail time. | |||
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Topic ClosedSIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Billings, MT man shoots a fleeing shoplifters. *UPDATE Pg 5* He has been charged.
Main Page The Lounge Billings, MT man shoots a fleeing shoplifters. *UPDATE Pg 5* He has been charged.© SIGforum 2024