I got swept so often working at the gun counter I got pretty good at politely asking people to not point a gun at me. Nearly everyone I mentioned it to apologized embarrassedly for their thoughtlessness.

There seems to be no real need for his histrionics in the story you outlined here.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
I will agree it sounds like the guy was way over the top, but, at the same time, ISTM there was a failure in supervision over the new, young shooter.

I agree.

quote:

I finally snapped and yelled back "OH, I DIDN'T KNOW I WAS SHOOTING WITH MISTER PERFECT WHO'S NEVER MAD A F'N MISTAKE IN HIS WHOLE LIFE! I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T SEE THE F'N HALO AROUND YOUR F'N HEAD! EXCUSE THE F-CK OUT OF ME!

I also don't think the response was correct.
Even with the emotions high because it is your kid and wanting to defend them (actions) I think it would be better to use restraint even though the Range Officer may have been over the top as ensigmatic said.

IMO, there are lessons to be learned here and it is to remain calm in conflict.
You were not.
Especially when firearms are present.

Be smart not right (morally) and next time de-escalate.

.02

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
Fuck that guy.

Pretty much sums it up for me. My reaction would have been similar to yours, if not a bit larger in magnitude. Everyone makes mistakes, especially kids. He turned what should have been a teachable moment into a shit show.

My response to him demanding that your son be done for the day would be that he could choose to go the hell home.

^^^ and exactly not the way to handle it ^^^


PS I just noticed that the guy may have not been a range officer but I still advocate calm when settling the issue rather that escalating it.

I may have misread, but I believe your son said that he didn’t know the guy was there. If I didn’t misread maybe what was needed was more situational awareness. The whole thing sounds like an unfortunate cluster function. If it were me, I’d be inclined to make sure the son knows he made a mistake and he needs to be both more situational aware and muzzle aware, but that both the drama queen and I owe him an apology for our behavior.

Guy wasn't even an RO, just a busybody who wandered into someone else's space.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

ISTM there was a failure in supervision over the new, young shooter.

How so? The boy was under supervision of his adult sister who is a Marine veteran. She was close enough and alert enough to take immediate action to move the muzzle.

It is not always possible to predict what's going to happen in the future (if it were, I would be predicting the stock market, roulette wheels, and horse races, and I'd be filthy rich). The woman who was supervising her younger brother did not see that the inadvertent muzzle sweep was going to happen, but when it did happen, she took immediate corrective action. That's about as good as supervision can get, if the supervisor is not able to see into the future.

1. He sat up a seperate shooting are for the 11 year old.

"so I set up a separate shooting area away from the rifle firing line where I could instruct my son on pistol handling and shooting"

2. The 11 year old was not un supervised. The 25 year old Marine was with him.

"I left my daughter in charge of my son"

This guy was having more than just a bad day.

Claiming that he would have drawn a gun on anyone over an accident was too much.

Complete over reaction . Nobody likes to get swept , but that kind of behavior is uncalled for . I would have apologized , told the dickhead that it won't happen again and went about my business . No way would I have allowed him to ruin my outting with my kids .
He says that he would have pulled a gun on somebody that swept him at his range ? So an act of negligence justifies a criminal response ? This guy has issues ..

Guy got swept by a unloaded gun. A simple "Hey Guys... lets keep the muzzles down range please." Would have been more than enough.

But sounds like he's a over the top douche nozzle. So he made a super big deal out of it. Sounds like what ever the male version of a "Karen" is...

quote:

Originally posted by selogic:

This guy has issues

Yeah, agreed, but I think that he has more than "issues." Having a loaded gun, and saying that he would have pulled it over a brief, inadvertent, violation of a safety rule that was immediately corrected?

I would say that this pretty well falls under the definition of "a danger to self and / or others." Push it a little further and become a candidate for Baker Act.

benny,
This didn't happen in Northeastern Ohio did it?
Because the guy sounds exactly like a mental case I am acquainted with. Looking for approval and adoration for their new toy, interjecting himself in a situation where it is evident that folks want to be alone, looking for any, ANY opportunity to become all important (if only for a moment), and giving a twenty minute diatribe that insists that you beg forgiveness for your opinion.
His initials would be M. S. R.
Gotta be the same guy.

When I was invited the first time, I made clear that I bring my son with me wherever I go because the wife works all day at the hospital. It was clearly intended to be a grown-up event but they allowed me to bring him the first time. We made a camping event out of it and he was a good sport around the big guys. During the first event, my son was hitting steel at 600 yards with a GA precision 6.5-284. The guys really enjoyed his company. We had grilled short-ribs over the camp fire and I made this awesome breakfast scramble with breakfast potatoes and tortillas. They pretty much said I had to come on future trips after that breakfast.

The drama queen in question only stopped by briefly on the second day during the first outing and we only shot a few minutes before getting rained out for the weekend. During the first camping trip, we had done some pistol shooting at some steel at a different location and I had previously been teaching my son using the same pistol without issue. He was not there when we were shooting pistols during that first trip. There were Glocks, 1911's, PCC's, 44 magnums, etc...

We all have serious hardware. Two of the guys bring .50's, there's 6mm's, 6.5's AR's of various types, full-autos, and of course my plethora of M14's.

Of all the guys in the group, I'm the only gun builder. The rest are gun buyers and in my short time, I've been answering an array of reloading questions for the group.


The group really liked my son and we were re-invited to the second event. I notified them beforehand that I'm bringing my son and my adult daughter this time.

Besides myself and my family, there were three others there at first and we were all shooting well together. My daughter made an astute observation after it all happened. There were three marines (myself, my daughter and one new guest) and one army ranger (the organizer) in the group. She doesn't think the drama queen was a veteran at all and maybe he was trying to act tough.

The new guest (also a marine) said he didn't know kids were invited and he would have brought his kids too if he knew there would be other kids.

The drama queen showed up half way into the day and the incident happened maybe 20 or 30 minutes after he arrived. His tirade lasted a few minutes and it was only after I got tired of him droning on and on that I snapped. At that point I felt the only way to get the guy to shut up was to finally snap back. My daughter has had plenty of people yell at her in her life and she was stone-faced and non-reactionary as he freaked out.

Thanks for everyone's perspective. I appreciate it. We did tell my son not to let this incident sour shooting for him. Everyone told him he's not a bad kid for having an accident and to learn from it.

Tony.

quote:

Originally posted by USMCE4retired:
benny,
This didn't happen in Northeastern Ohio did it?
Because the guy sounds exactly like a mental case I am acquainted with. Looking for approval and adoration for their new toy, interjecting himself in a situation where it is evident that folks want to be alone, looking for any, ANY opportunity to become all important (if only for a moment), and giving a twenty minute diatribe that insists that you beg forgiveness for your opinion.
His initials would be M. S. R.
Gotta be the same guy.

HA HA! No, Portland, OR.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
Claiming that he would have drawn a gun on anyone over an accident was too much.

And honestly this is why I quit shooting at some of the popular spots in the Tillamook (Oregon) Forest. I either go alone, with a close friend or not at all.

Sadly, The area near Browns Camp has too many "issues" like people shooting at old propane tanks, and other non-traditional targets like TV sets etc.

I was at one of the shooting spots off hiway 26 near Salmonberry Road, and another car drives up and the guy gets out with a rifle. I got in my car and left. The guy could have been ok, and he even said "I didn't mean to run you off" as I left, but I just don't want to shoot in the forest with people I don't know.

Not ideal because those areas are some of the best areas to shoot at. Great being outdoors and it's a statement of freedom to shoot in the forest.

THANK GOD the S.O.B. MOVED!!!!

quote:

One of the shooters came over to talk to me about reloading and also showed me his Sig P229 which he cleared (with a mag still in) and he ejected a round into the brush. After talking with me, he was digging through the brush for his lost round.

I find this part offensive, no weapon is 'cleared' with a magazine in it. The search for the ejected round with a "shooter" in close vicinity is a red flag that indicates "idiot" gun person lacking in experience. AND both 'parties are at fault! Sorry dude, sweeping another with a gun is NEVER excusable, NOR is over reacting!
Shit happens!

I stopped shooting at Brown's Camp years ago. I shot with some hillbilly's out at Camp 5 once and it was the last time I ever went. I literally had to grab a jammed SKS from a guy while my friend was downrange. I said "I'll hold that until my friend gets back from downrange. He's my ride, you know..."

After that it was TCGC for me.

They guy sounds like an ass, and if safety and a teachable moment was actually his goal, rather than his own ego, he would have handled it very differently. None of that excuses that your son made a serious mistake, but he should have been coached through it rather than scolded and humiliated.

And the comment about drawing down is something that I would have dealt with separately and severely. He should have been called out in front of the entire group for that and there should have been consequences for making a threat like that.

The guy I know sometimes shot at the matches at Camp Perry. I never went,but heard tales from people that saw his ego at work. For instance, he would kick up dust when other shooters were firing just to hinder their performance. And give "expert instruction" to people with far greater experience that he had.
I have come to realize, though, that people like that have something missing in their lives, and they know it. Sad, really.

Back in the days before everyone was a spec ops internet commando, this drama probably wouldn't have happened. I don't understand how these sensitive bed wetters get by in life, what a puss.
Funny thing is that the people who cry the most about others mistakes are typically the ones that make those mistakes most often.