Won't work on yours. Once the boltwork moves out of the way like that the swingbolt will extend and lock, locking your safe in the open position and becoming stuck that way. Same problem with a solenoid and motor operated square bolt. Once the lock cycles it will automatically extend the bolt and trap the boltwork from closing.

Your only option is a mechanical lock or electronic lock with manual retraction/extension.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
Won't work on yours. Once the boltwork moves out of the way like that the swingbolt will extend and lock, locking your safe in the open position and becoming stuck that way.

*sigh* Ok. Thanks for the help

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
Your only option is a mechanical lock or electronic lock with manual retraction/extension.

So the S&G Titan with the D-Drive I guess would be my best bet.

Am I going to have to drill a separate hole for the wiring, since there'll be a shaft running through the door to operate the bolt?

quote:

So the S&G Titan with the D-Drive I guess would be my best bet.

It's been a good lock in my experience, and I actually prefer the manual locking/unlocking especially for commercial applications. If you're getting in and out of your safe you don't need to unlock it every time.

quote:

Am I going to have to drill a separate hole for the wiring, since there'll be a shaft running through the door to operate the bolt?

No. The wiring for that lock routes through an aluminum shaft that connects the lock to the keypad. It will work through your existing spindle hole.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

So the S&G Titan with the D-Drive I guess would be my best bet.

It's been a good lock in my experience, and I actually prefer the manual locking/unlocking especially for commercial applications. If you're getting in and out of your safe you don't need to unlock it every time.

To every cloud there's a silver lining, and I hadn't considered that one. When I'm in and out of the safe I like to close the door if I'm not getting back in right away, to minimize air exchange with the relatively damp air of the basement.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

Am I going to have to drill a separate hole for the wiring, since there'll be a shaft running through the door to operate the bolt?

No. The wiring for that lock routes through an aluminum shaft that connects the lock to the keypad. It will work through your existing spindle hole.

Great! So an S&G Titan D-Drive it will be.

Thanks, yet again, a1abdj, for all the help. I certainly would've gone wrong without it.

My safe with the gold dial is a StackOn. Is it possible to change this lock out?

quote:

Originally posted by molachi:
My safe with the gold dial is a StackOn. Is it possible to change this lock out?

Unless a1abdj or another safe expert (*) knows that particular safe, you're probably going to have to post photos of the dial and the lockwork to get an answer to that.

(*) With the untimely passing of member striker1 , I believe a1abdj may be the forum's only safe guru.

Only thing I will add here is a "thank you" to a1abdj for being awesome to this forum!

Thank you Sir

HK Ag

quote:

Originally posted by HK Ag:
Only thing I will add here is a "thank you" to a1abdj for being awesome to this forum!

Thank you Sir

+1

What happens if your electronic lock burns up in a fire? Can the safe be opened somehow?
Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by BlackAgnes:
What happens if your electronic lock burns up in a fire? Can the safe be opened somehow?

With the lock I'm buying: If it's just the keypad that's damaged, I understand I'll be able to install a new keypad and be GTG. The "brains" of the lock are all contained within the unit behind the door. If the internal part of the lock becomes inoperable for any reason, the safe will have to be drilled out to gain access.

a1abdj, with his experience and knowledge in the field, can certainly answer this better than anyone else here, but, from what I've read: Getting into the safe may be the least of one's worries in such a case.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
The lock in your safe isn't that great of a lock. I suspect if you pull the back cover and open up that lock you'll find black "dust" which is the metal of that particular lock wearing out.

Unsurprisingly, he called that one right:



Got the new Sargent & Greenleaf Titan D-Drive electronic lock installed Saturday.





(I haven't put the S&G logo over that screw, yet. I'll do that today.)

With the gold trim on the bezel, it turned out to be a pretty good match to the safe's handle and trim paint.



a1abdj was right on this, too: The install was pretty straight-forward. One tricky part was getting the old lock off, which wasn't immediately obvious. (Surprisingly, I could find no YouTube videos for that.)

Another tricky part was getting that cable that goes between the keypad and lock into the cutout in the spindle. Finally applied a small amount of Vaseline petroleum jelly to the cable and it slid right in. I then wiped it off the cable jacket.

Another installation hint: I cut the spindle slightly long to leave some material so I could smooth out the rough edges with a file.

Wouldn't you know it: It was only after testing the lock several times Saturday, then putting the back on the door Sunday, that I discovered why the old lock had occasionally been reluctant to lock: The lock bolt was a couple thousandths off from the slot in the safe's lockwork when the safe's handle was turned fully closed. A couple minutes with a Dremel tool to slightly relieve the edge of that slot and new lock now operates smoothly in locking.

I've been testing the lock several times/day since installation, with two different combinations that, between them, hit all the numbers on the keypad. I think today I might finally be comfortable enough to actually lock the safe closed

I had a safe custom built back some years ago.
Smith Security built it for me. They make safes and vault doors. Good gun people too.
Anyway, I wanted a mechanical lock for that safe.

I dealt with the owner. As we discussed what I wanted, the only thing he tried to change my mind on was that lock. He told me that the new mechanical locks had too many plastic or cheaper parts in them and they failed before the electronic locks did, by far.
Now, I have no evidence of that, except his word.
I do know that it has been a good while since I bought that safe and my electronic lock still works great.
I would have to look it up to see exactly how old my safe it.

Nicely done ensigmatic!

Kudos to a1abdj for jumping in.

I see you’ve got a Zanotti. Same here. Noisy to assemble, but solid once that’s accomplished.

quote:

What happens if your electronic lock burns up in a fire? Can the safe be opened somehow?

Any type of lock can be melted during a fire, causing a complete lockout. This is one of the ways that I point out BS fire claims some companies have made in the past. After a real fire a safe is barely recognizable as a safe. The keypad and dial are gone, and the safe needs to be drilled or otherwise forced open at that point.

A minor fire may allow you to open a safe using other means, so the ultimate answer is that "it depends".

quote:

Got the new Sargent & Greenleaf Titan D-Drive electronic lock installed Saturday.

Looks good!

quote:

He told me that the new mechanical locks had too many plastic or cheaper parts in them and they failed before the electronic locks did, by far.

That guy has made all sorts of interesting claims. Especially considering that electronic locks are full of plastic, and I'm not currently thinking of any modern production mechanical lock that has a single plastic part within. I have photos of some of his work, and it can be as questionable as his claims.

There are so few people with "safe" experience, that just about any locksmith, manufacturer, importer, retailer, etc. will come off as an expert to a layperson. I generally tell people to ask the "expert" how many safes they have opened for customers this month. The guys that know how they are built aren't the ones selling them or making them. It's the guys breaking into them.

quote:

Originally posted by Expat:
Nicely done ensigmatic!

Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by Expat:
Kudos to a1abdj for jumping in.

Indeed. Amongst other things, his help prevented me from ordering the wrong thing, probably having to pay return shipping and restocking fees, the hassle, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by tsmccull:
I see you’ve got a Zanotti. Same here. Noisy to assemble, but solid once that’s accomplished.

Yeah, seems solid.

I really had no choice. I wanted it in the basement. Getting an assembled safe down the stairs would've required professionals and probably adding temporary bracing to the stairs to handle the load.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Got the new Sargent & Greenleaf Titan D-Drive electronic lock installed Saturday.

Looks good!

Thanks! And thanks again for all the help! I couldn't have done it without you. Or at least not as smoothly and confidently

Finally worked-up the courage to actually lock the safe with it after three days of testing it several times/day

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

Originally posted by Aquabird:
He told me that the new mechanical locks had too many plastic or cheaper parts in them and they failed before the electronic locks did, by far.

That guy has made all sorts of interesting claims. Especially considering that electronic locks are full of plastic, and I'm not currently thinking of any modern production mechanical lock that has a single plastic part within.

Yeah, that sounded pretty screwy to me. As you know: I'd been researching safe locks extensively up until making my choice. I never saw any mention anywhere of any of the locks I was considering containing any plastic parts.

The lock I chose of course has plastic in the keypad, and the ring that operates the spindle that turns the bolt is some kind of high-end plastic, but everything else save the electronics is steel, TTBOMK.

Tannerite is the only viable solution.

Be sure to video it.

a1abdj= Quick question. I own a Fort Knox Executive 8000 with a S&G mechanical lock. I bought it new in 1988 and it operates fine as long as I take my time with the dial, never abused. After 32 years do I need to have the lock "serviced" or cleaned in any way? Seems to still operate as good as new. Please advise and thank you.

P.S. Always kept in a house with a/c, no garage or basement. Safe is opened about 3 or 4 times per week average usage...

quote:

After 32 years do I need to have the lock "serviced" or cleaned in any way? Seems to still operate as good as new. Please advise and thank you.

Technically you're a bit past due.


A few weeks ago I was contracted to move two very high end jewelers safes out of a multi floor office building. It was going to be an expensive job as the safes needed the doors removed to keep us within weight on the elevator, and the owner really only needed one of the safes. She offered me one of the safes in exchange for moving both of them out.

The safes were identical, and I asked her which safe she wanted of the two. Her daughter commented that the one she was giving me was always difficult to open. I popped the cover to set it to a storage combination and discovered that all four lock mounting screws were loose. This allowed the lock to move around, thus making the combination difficult to accomplish.

She thought she was taking the better safe, but the one she gave me was in better shape due to the lack of use. Had one of those screws become detached within the lock it could have been a lockout situation costing several thousand dollars to rectify.

So even though the safe was in outstanding condition and the lock was in good condition, my inspection caught a problem that would have occurred eventually. The lock was also giving them signs that something was wrong.

Moral of the story is that it's not a bad idea to have something inspected and serviced, even if everything is working properly at the moment. You never know what issues might be discovered and rectified. Loose fasteners do cause lockouts.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

After 32 years do I need to have the lock "serviced" or cleaned in any way? Seems to still operate as good as new. Please advise and thank you.

Technically you're a bit past due.

"A bit?" From what I think I recall of your past comments on this, about 20 years past-due

The LG I replaced on my safe was probably over twenty years old. I should never have let it go that long. Particularly since I knew all along it was probably a cheap lock to begin with.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
Loose fasteners do cause lockouts.

That brings me to a question I had about using thread-locker on attachment screws. The instructions with my new S&G lock said "don't do it." Obviously Zanotti did use some kind of thread-locker on the lock they put in. (Plus they used a dash of hot-melt glue to help secure the privacy guard/bezel to the front of the safe. I guess they wanted to make sure.)

I had to use an impact driver to get the screws loose for both the lock body and for that privacy ring/bezel. And a plastic mallet on that ring to get it loose from the glue.

I just left whatever remnants of the thread-locker they'd used in-place. I used my inch-pound torque wrench to tighten the lock body screws to 35 in/lbs. (Installation instructions on-line recommended 30-40 in/lbs. The paper ones that came with the lock did not.) The screws holding the body of the keypad frame and bolt-turning ring I just snugged-down well. (Didn't rag on them, but they're tight.)

So the question is: Why not use a dash of at least Loctite "purple," their weakest thread-locker, on these screws? Or even "blue?"