quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:
Do you spin the dial real fast?

Is this a bad thing to do?

Thanks for the follow-ups, all!

To answer the various answers and suggestions in one go...

Adding/subtracting a number: Making sure I go past the designated number by a bit seems to help.

In a past conversation on this topic, member a1abdj, I think it was, said many locks that gun safes come with have built-in slop so you don't have to be right on the money with the numbers.

Sign of impending failure: I've had these experiences with this lock since Day 1.

EMP: I'm not concerned about it. EMP is primarily going to affect things connected to the power grid or antennas. Unlikely to affect a small bit of electronics in a safe in a basement. S&G's electronic locks have been EMP-tested, anyway. As an offshoot of their government-/mil-spec locks they tested their commercial and residential locks and found they passed.

Glasses/stool: Ceiling's too low for me to stand on a stool. If the goal is to get into the safe quickly, I don't want to have to don glasses, open the safe, remove the glasses so I can see the contents of the safe clearly, etc.

Lighting: I've installed battery-powered LED lights above the dial. Without them it'd be hopeless. But they're a double-edged sword: Being that close to the dial, they induce glare.

Pre-dialing most of the combination: Already doing that. Of course: If the problem strikes when I've done that, I still have to start all over again.

Lock/numbers colours: The lock on the document safe where I used to work had sharply-defined numbers and lines on a matte steel body. I had no problem reading that at all. It was also more about mid-way down the door, placing it closer to arms length, which is the optimal distance for me w/o glasses, and in a very well-lit room.

Painting the dial: Thanks for the suggestion, but... no.

tsmccull:

The Cabela's branded Liberty safe I purchased 7-8 years ago came with an S&G Titan electronic lock. I would defer to a1abdj , but so far my experience with it is that it has functioned flawlessly.

quote:

Yesterday it happened again that it took me three tries to get into my safe. I don't know if it's the lock, me, or both, but this has got to stop.

Two Ideas:

Use nail polish or model/hobby paint to redo the numbers and tick marks. You can try a few different colors to see which would work best for you. Paint over the gold color, to begin with. Even try 2-4 different colors for the numbers/marks. 0-25 White, 25-50 Yellow, 50-175 white, etc... (White marks on Green, Maze marks on Blue)

Use some 110 or 200 grit sandpaper or even steel wool to lightly rough up the areas to be painted first. Could paint the flat part in front of the tick marks and the spaces in between in black. Then the numbers and tick marks in white. You could even use fluorescent paint for the numbers and marks.

You could get a new dial as well. Install a new one, if you can see it better great. Repaint the old one to try different colors.
Safe and Look Store



Opening My Safe: When I first got it, I struggled quite a bit. I wasn't sure if I was screwing it up and I was worried the dial was moving when I let go to untwist my wrist. So I started using both hands. Right hand to spin in the combo, left hand to hold the dial still while resetting my wrist. Probably just my OCD kicking in. After doing it that way few dozen times I'm able to spin through the combo just fine one-handed.


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Digital Locks.
About 5 years ago, prior to buying the safe I own I did a lot of research. From what I read then digital locks were a bad idea. My biggest concern was having another battery to change, was it in the safe or outside etc.. I went with a liberty safe with S&G mechanical lock.

Reading Safe Locks 101 on the liberty website, it seems that digital locks are just fine and offer some good advantages. This is a good quick read.
Safe locks 101 by Liberty Safe

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I hope all of this is some help to you.


After posting I read my post. My apologies if the suggestion of using sandpaper comes across as insulting. I'm sure most everyone on the forum would know to do that. I was just being thorough, I hope you didn't take offense.

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given you live in SE Michigan You could do White marks on Green or Maze marks on Blue. I would go with Green and White myself.
-Go State. Though I'll cheer for UofM just as well.

Wow, what is with all this safe opening gymnastics? I have converted to an e-lock a few years ago and never regretted it. Just get a reputable brand. So easy that I can punch the combo with my eyes closed.

A black and white contrast dial is a good place to start - makes it much easier to read the numbers and lines.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:
Do you spin the dial real fast?

Not when I'm dialing-in the combination. I do turn it somewhat briskly when I'm clearing it in preparation to do so.

The numbers may be off a bit due to the whipping of the knob.

I thought, in the past, that both forum safe guys said electronic locks will fail, it's just a question of when. Are E locks to a point now where they're as reliable as mechanicals?

Other than the key in the knob, that looks a lot light the lock on the safe at a family members house. It too takes multiple attempts to open in. Often MANY.

The lock in your safe isn't that great of a lock. I suspect if you pull the back cover and open up that lock you'll find black "dust" which is the metal of that particular lock wearing out. Regardless of which way you go, a new lock is probably a sure bet. All modern UL rated locks share the same mounting footprint, so changing yours shouldn't be a huge deal.

Modern electronic locks are more reliable than they used to be, but still more prone to failure than mechanical. This is more true over long periods of time.

The AMSEC ESL-10, S&G Titan, and Securam locks have all been pretty decent for me. For mechanical locks the S&G 6730 is the workhorse of the industry.

All reflective dials are difficult to see with gold being the worst. A simple black and white dial will be the easiest to see. If looking down upon the dial is difficult, you could go with a front read dial. If you're changing to another mechanical you're going to have to reset the combination anyway. If you pick numbers that end in 0 or 5 that will make it the easiest to see when dialing.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
The lock in your safe isn't that great of a lock.

Somehow I find this unsurprising. I've always had the impression it wasn't a particularly high-quality lock.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
Regardless of which way you go, a new lock is probably a sure bet.

It's decided, then: A new lock. Sooner, rather than later, I think.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
All modern UL rated locks share the same mounting footprint, so changing yours shouldn't be a huge deal.

By an end-user with moderate-to-good mechanical and tech skills?

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
Modern electronic locks are more reliable than they used to be, but still more prone to failure than mechanical.

Naturally. Electro-mechanical vs. mechanical. But ISTM if the "electro" part is built with the same quality and care as the "mechanical" part, it should be quite reliable.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
The AMSEC ESL-10, S&G Titan, and Securam locks have all been pretty decent for me. For mechanical locks the S&G 6730 is the workhorse of the industry.

If you were to rate the S&G 6730 as a "10" for reliability, where would you place good electronic locks such as the ones you list? And, of those, how would you place them in order of preference?

Pivotbolt/swingbolt is the way to go, right?

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
All reflective dials are difficult to see with gold being the worst. A simple black and white dial will be the easiest to see. If looking down upon the dial is difficult, you could go with a front read dial.

Noted.

Thanks for the info, a1abdj!

quote:

Originally posted by ergoproxy:
Wow, what is with all this safe opening gymnastics? I have converted to an e-lock a few years ago and never regretted it.

Many others have, and some safe people have reported having to punch out safes with e-locks vs. mechanical at as high as a 20:1 ratio--at least in the past.

What I'm trying to establish is just how much more reliable are modern e-locks than those of ten years ago or better.

quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:
A black and white contrast dial is a good place to start - makes it much easier to read the numbers and lines.

Yeah... about that "good place to start": Thing is: If that doesn't do the trick, then I'm looking to replace the lock again. I'd really prefer to avoid that.

quote:

Originally posted by 2Adefender:

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:
Do you spin the dial real fast?

Is this a bad thing to do?

Yes, as it can slowly change the settings over time.

I found a really cool lock for my safe. It's both electronic and spin-dial. Separate combos for each, either works. It was kind of expensive, but I like it.

quote:

Originally posted by Fredward:
I found a really cool lock for my safe. It's both electronic and spin-dial. Separate combos for each, either works. It was kind of expensive, but I like it.

Which one? There are a couple of which I'm aware: The NL (LP) "Doomsday" Redundant Dual Lock, discussed at length in striker1's Work in Progress - A Comprehensive Guide to Electronic (and Mechanical) Locks on your Gun Safes, and Common Problems and Maintenance Concerns thread, and SecuRam's SafeLogic Extreme and ProLogic Xtreme.

quote:

By an end-user with moderate-to-good mechanical and tech skills?

Easier to put in an electronic lock, but I have walked other forum members through doing it yourself. There are a number of small details that are important, and the lock warranty may not remain in effect.

quote:

If you were to rate the S&G 6730 as a "10" for reliability, where would you place good electronic locks such as the ones you list? And, of those, how would you place them in order of preference?

During the first 1-5 years they're probably all pretty close to equal. As you go for longer periods of time the electronics start dropping off. Shorter life commercially due to use, longer on gun safes due to minimal use.

The oldest electronic lock I have seen has made it over 20 years, but those are pretty few and far between. I have 100 to 150 year old safes with their original mechanical locks that work just as well as new.

quote:

Pivotbolt/swingbolt is the way to go, right?

From a reliability standpoint I don't believe it makes a difference. I would avoid square bolts that are motor driven. All safes will work with square bolt locks, but not all will work with a swingbolt style.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
All safes will work with square bolt locks, but not all will work with a swingbolt style.

Any way for me to be able to tell with my safe?

Thanks for the help!

ETA: Looking at a YouTube video of an S&G Pivotbolt lock installation, it looks like I should be able to tell by examining my lockwork?

ETA2: After watching YouTube videos of an S&G Titan Pivotbolt e-lock installation and one of a safe guy removing a traditional dial lock: This looks like it might be pretty straight-forward. I'm going to take the back of my safe's door off and, if what I see there looks like what I've seen in those videos, I believe I'm going to order an S&G Titan Pivotbolt lock w/one-battery lighted keypad and go for it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ensigmatic,

a1abdj,

If you're still looking at this thread: Here's a photo of my safe's lockwork. It looks to me like an S&G Pivotbolt will work fine:



The piece under the lock's bolt swings to the right, from this perspective, to unlock.

Although it might appear it's the lock's bolt that stops that bar upon closing, there's curved slot in it that straddles that hex bolt, below, that appears to be meant to stop it in position?

What do you think?

TIA!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ensigmatic,

quote:

Glasses, a stool if needed, go slow.

A pillow, instead of a stool, works if they're lying down.

quote:

What do you think?

For a swingbolt to operate properly the boltwork of the safe must retain the bolt in the unlocked position after the boltwork slides open. Can you take a photo of your safe with the bolts open so I can see where everything is?

Worst case scenario, get the D-Drive. It's a square bolt that requires you to turn the bezel to lock/unlock. Same lock otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
For a swingbolt to operate properly the boltwork of the safe must retain the bolt in the unlocked position after the boltwork slides open.

Bummer. Mine doesn't do that

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
Can you take a photo of your safe with the bolts open so I can see where everything is?

Certainly:



I had assumed that, between the bevel on that bar and the relieved/rounded end of the Pivotbolt, the rod would simply move the bolt out of the way as the safe handle was rotated to the closed position. As in:

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
Worst case scenario, get the D-Drive. It's a square bolt that requires you to turn the bezel to lock/unlock. Same lock otherwise.

Yeah, I know. I was hoping to avoid what is certain to be the additional complexity of having the dial operating the bolt, and the additional operation of having to turn the dial when opening and closing.

Thanks again for your help!