I don't care how tired you are, or how Black, or how White, or how male or female, or LEO or non-LEO. There is just no excuse for walking into the wrong apartment and shooting the occupant.
She is not the worst criminal in the world, but it is a very grave mistake that she should be prosecuted fully for.

quote:

Originally posted by c1steve:
A good study would be to look at all the accidental police shootings, and investigate the officers. How many were hired because of diversity or lack of quality candidates? Compare this with how many regular officers who went through the academy, were hired on their own merits and accidentally shot someone. The compare the number of diversity hires to people who made it on their own.

I have been an employee and employer, and one can pretty much spot which employee will eventually screw up big time. My WAG would be that at least 90% of those officers that make major mistakes were hired for diversity or other poor reasons.

as an Employee and having been an Employer, I too can spot fukups pretty quick,

however the data you want to see will likely never be available, nor will it ever be correct,

simply because it is likely not recorded, other than an application, resume and supporting documents on pass/fail


however the big flaw in the statement is that while you or I (or any number of fellow Sigforum members) may be great at hiring and weeding out the unqualified, often the management and HR staff are not,,

quote:

Originally posted by mr kablammo:
Well, I typed a longer response and dropped the phone. So that one disappeared.
More succintly, a BLM flunky murdered DPD LEOs recently. In turn he was blown up by a robot. She works in a specialized team to apprehend more-violent-than-usual crims. She has, I logically deduce, recieved death threats from her arrestees. Being fatigued on arriving home and finding the door ajar and a potential ambuser inside... it is logical to shoot in mistaken self-defense.

No, it is logical to back out into the hallway, call for back-up and reassess the situation.

quote:

Originally posted by Crom:
I don't care how tired you are, or how Black, or how White, or how male or female, or LEO or non-LEO. There is just no excuse for walking into the wrong apartment and shooting the occupant.
She is not the worst criminal in the world, but it is a very grave mistake that she should be prosecuted fully for.

This is the boat that I am rowing.

I got married when I worked nights. After getting married and moving to the new house with my wife I did on 2 occassions drive to my old house, after getting off night shift, that I had lived in for a couple years prior to getting married.
I pulled up and quickly thought MORON and drove home. But that was from routine not a similar residence.

Even given the tragedy that this is, the case is legally interesting.

Assume what she's claiming proves out. Thinking she was on her own floor, she walked up to what she thought was her door, it was ajar, she walks in, sees a stranger, draws her service weapon, gives him orders which he ignores, and she shoot him and kills him. Her thinking is demonstrably that she's walking in on a burglary, and the victim in her mind presented a real threat. Of course, it was a mistake. What's the criminal liability here under TX law? And does the fact that she's a LEO become a factor.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
Even given the tragedy that this is, the case is legally interesting.

Assume what she's claiming proves out. Thinking she was on her own floor, she walked up to what she thought was her door, it was ajar, she walks in, sees a stranger, draws her service weapon, gives him orders which he ignores, and she shoot him and kills him. Her thinking is demonstrably that she's walking in on a burglary, and the victim in her mind presented a real threat. Of course, it was a mistake. What's the criminal liability here under TX law? And does the fact that she's a LEO become a factor.

I think the LEO factor can only hurt her. With her training and experience as a LEO, she would be expected to perform to a higher standard than a citizen in a similar circumstance.

I have worked 48 hours straight at a couple busy stations and never went to the wrong apartment, and I was going through a divorce at the time. From the pictures they are taking of the crime scene, I noticed they had a red half moon carpet in front of Botham's door, was it there all the time? Something doesn't smell kosher about this but I have been wrong before.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by Dusty78:
she Does look really sleepy in her mugshot

She was booked three days after the incident. So her appearance in the mugshot is not indicative of her appearance at the time of the shooting.

As for the booking photo, I suspect she had minimal sleep during the intervening days between the shooting and her booking, due to the weight of the situation.

It was a joke. Her mugshot has more bags then than the Glad aisle at Costco.

quote:

Originally posted by c1steve:

quote:

Originally posted by mr kablammo:
Well, I typed a longer response and dropped the phone. So that one disappeared.
More succintly, a BLM flunky murdered DPD LEOs recently. In turn he was blown up by a robot. She works in a specialized team to apprehend more-violent-than-usual crims. She has, I logically deduce, recieved death threats from her arrestees. Being fatigued on arriving home and finding the door ajar and a potential ambuser inside... it is logical to shoot in mistaken self-defense.

No, it is logical to back out into the hallway, call for back-up and reassess the situation.

Absolutely logical to simply hold the door and get backup. It was a 2nd floor apartment, I dont think there is a back window to jump out. One way in, one way out.

She is going to spend some time behind bars.

quote:

Originally posted by mr kablammo:
911Boss, I typed up a response. That was wiped out by fumbling the phone and hot Pu Erh tea. So to summarize. You posted 'extreme penalty'. Death? Life in prison? 50 years, no breaks? Which level of conviction?

Manslaughter at least, no “involuntary” qualifier or claim of self-defense. Seems she quite intentionally drew her weapon and fired.

As for sentencing, whatever the range is.

You think anyone would be jumping through hoops to excuse or explain away if some average Joe Blow made the same “mistake”?

Not saying she should be treated worse because she was a cop, but she sure as hell shouldn’t be treated any easier for being one either.

I'm hearing stuff that she knew this guy and may have been a jilted lover and that this was no "accident".

Dallas City Council on WRR today had a lot of emotional wailing about something between police and citizens. I didn't hear much of it so don't know details.

flashguy

The would change things immensely. Have you seen any verification?

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
I'm hearing stuff that she knew this guy and may have been a jilted lover and that this was no "accident".

quote:

I noticed they had a red half moon carpet in front of Botham's door, was it there all the time?

I read an interview with a family member that he put the red carpet outside so people wouldn't mistake his apartment for another one.
Kind of ironic but there may be other reasons she ended up there. We'll have to wait a bit longer.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
I'm hearing stuff that she knew this guy and may have been a jilted lover and that this was no "accident".

Hmmmm . . .

That kind of changes the way that this should be handled.

What is your source?

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
I'm hearing stuff that she knew this guy and may have been a jilted lover and that this was no "accident".

Hmmmm . . .

That kind of changes the way that this should be handled.

What is your source?

Lets wait and see. Having lived through the lamestream media and social media shouting a "hands up, don't shoot" narrative for months, I would wait and see what the actual facts are in court. At this point, I wouldn't trust any "evidence" or statements coming out of the Prosecutor's office.

For the record, I do believe she will be going to prison, the question will be for how long. I have unfortunately seen a wide range of sentences for Involuntary and Voluntary Manslaughter, from 7 years probation (no time served) to 10 years prison time. A Murder 2 conviction would be prison time starting around 15 years.

CBS evening "news" last night dangled an extracurricular angle to their acquaintance as "local rumors say there's more" at the very end of the segment.

So. My source is fake news.

“The white Dallas police officer who fatally shot her black upstairs neighbor claimed in her affidavit that his door was already ajar when she entered and that she shot him after he ignored verbal commands.

But video obtained exclusively by DailyMail.com with the aid of a neighbor living on the same floor shows that the doors in the Dallas apartment building are uniformly heavy metal fire doors that automatically slam shut if let go.

A door could only be left ajar if it had been deliberately positioned that way with a door stopper.

Further,  as a second DailyMail.com video shows,  officer Amber Guyger could not have used her key to force open the door of Botham Jean, whose funeral was held today, despite claiming to have done so in her statement to Texas Rangers.

…

DailyMail.com can also reveal that Guyger had made noise complaints about Jean, 26, to the building management in the days before his death…”

https://dailym.ai/2p3QAX5

quote:

Guyger had made noise complaints about Jean, 26, to the building management in the days before his death

The plot thickens.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Guyger had made noise complaints about Jean, 26, to the building management in the days before his death

The plot thickens.

I didn't want to add my 2 cents, but this was one of my pennies, if he lived directly above her.

Also, the "jilted" love theory.

I had someone walk into my apartment once. He got about 3 feet before he realized he was in the wrong apartment. Kind of hard to not notice a 130lb Rottweiler charging at you.