We took the Amtrak Auto Train from Lorton, VA to Sanford, FL last week and back this week for a vacation to Universal and Disney. Thanks to the SF members who recommended this, it was a really cool experience!

With that being said, the one thing that really stood out to me it was how beat-up and crude feeling and looking this train was compared to what I rode in Germany 30 years ago. It makes me a little bit sad and angry that they are LIGHT YEARS ahead of us in this arena. I remember in like 1993 calling my Dad from a German high speed ICE train going something like 320 km an hour with digital readouts on the wall and it felt so smooth like I was on an airplane or something, in comparison to this Amtrak train which was very jittery and shaky and bouncy and just not a very smooth ride. And it felt like it was going pretty slow for long stretches, not sure if that’s due to speed restrictions or what but overall the train felt like it was decades behind technology-wise. Maybe I’m comparing apples to oranges but I rode a lot of German trains from regional to inter-Europe and they all seemed way ahead of us even then.

Has anyone ever ridden an Amtrak and then rode a train in Europe or other countries? Do you see the same thing??

I have, and I noticed the same thing. It might have to do with ownership of the tracks and how traffic is maintained. It is my understanding that the high-speed trains and tracks in Europe are government owned and dedicated to high-speed passenger service. Amtrak must rent/lease time and space on the privately-owned tracks in the US which are predominantly used for the movement of freight, hence the rough ride and delays between stations.

Looking forward to some clarification by the Forumites who actually know.

As a kid I used to ride the train to the Chicago Loop. In college I rode the South Shore railroad, AKA the Vomit Comet from Indiana to Chicago. Of course the El in Chicago.
The Smithsonian Channel has a program called Mighty Trains where you view luxury trains from around the world. Very interesting, kind of like the Orient Express. Neither of my adult children has ever ridden a train.

Well all that and the reality that nobody in the states really wants to ride a train anywhere. I wouldn’t mind but I too am an exception. Taking three or four days to cross the country seems relaxing to me. Most would disagree. I don’t mind the bumps and noise, I find it curiously relaxing.

I did Chicago to Boston and back in ‘01. Never again, I’d rather drive.

One of the problems comparing Europe to the USA is distance. I used the train when I was stationed in England, and it was a great experience. But from what I remember, the passenger trains are the only ones on the rails, and it was economical and speedy to get to the heart of London. I never got to use the train in continental Europe, but have heard a lot of great things about it too. But the size of the nations are such that even short haul planes are not as efficient as a well run train.

Several years ago my family was living in Virginia Beach, and I was stationed in DC. It was murder on us to get to each other on the weekends. One weekend I tried Amtrak. It turned out to be cheaper and faster to drive there and back on weekends than take the train. And as a side bonus, I didn't have to worry about losing my life at the stations from the various vagrants hanging around.

I think Amtrak could be fun IF time was not an issue and the stations did NOT look like a certain Mos Isley cantina...

Welcome to $10/gallon gas. The trains in Europe are subsidized by a massive gasoline tax. You get what you pay for. Germans pay a tremendous amount of "transportation tax" to have a world class rail system, which makes some level of sense when you have 1/4 of our population, but only 3.63% of our size.

Rail only works when the distances between key points are short enough to make it a better option then air. Driving distance from Munich to Kiel, which is roughly Germany's southern most city to it's northern most is 552 miles, whereas in the US driving distance from Miami to Macon, GA is 586 miles. Macon is an hour south of Atlanta, and who the hell wants to go to Macon?

Cost per mile based on distances and population density in the US strongly favors air travel over rail, and that is why our rail system sucks. There's no economic incentive to make it better, and no one wants to pay the taxes.

Several years ago my parents to the Amtrak train from Trenton New Jersey to Winter Haven Florida to come visit my wife and I.
It took 22 to 24 hours and cost over $900.00 dollars at the time. This was for 2 round trip tickets, a private sleeper car, the smallest and it included food.

It took longer by train than if they decided to drive straight through. My father and mother said the service was excellent and the food was very good, then said they would never do it again. They said it took way to long with to many stops along the way.

Years ago when my Aunt and Uncle were still alive they used to winter in Florida from New Jersey. They used to take the auto train and loved it. If they drove it would take several days to get here because they were in no rush. They loved the train because all they had to do was drive to Virginia, then once in Florida drive to Stuart where their condo was. They got the drive down to two days.

The only trains I have ever been on were at Walt Disney World

I actually love riding the train. I like to unplug and read or watch a show or something. I hate flying as well so that may have something to do with it. Having time to unwind before and after a trip is something undervalued, I think, in our instant gratification society. Having talked to a friend recently that flew while I drove for the same trip, I was far happier and relaxed while she had a terrible trip and was exhausted and sick at the end. I also prefer cruising. I think we lost something with the possibility of flight which is awesome if you have to be somewhere fast but I find it leaves you frantic.

I think some of Amtraks issue is that it is peoples 3rd or 4th pick and therefore it doesn't get the funding and income like eurorail. I need to get my kids on a train, they've never been and they've wanted to try it for some time.

Public transit as a whole in the US is a joke. I grew up riding public city transit in Europe, as well as inter-city busses and trains. They were cheap, reliable, pretty much on-time, and made for convenient transportation. It really wasn't a bad experience, either, as most people over there have some self-respect and know how to behave like adults in public, and keep their kids in line, too. Apart from some shady experiences in the subway very late at night, or the occasional drunk hobo type during the day, I never really felt uncomfortable or unsafe. The conductors, drivers, and cops were pretty good about tossing those types of people off, too, when they came to their attention. Shenanigans wasn't tolerated.

When I moved back to the US for college, I worked one summer outside of Johnstown PA. At the end of the summer, I had to get back to Indiana for school, and I didn't have a car, so my grandparents got me a Greyhound ticket. Poor naive kid from Europe had no idea what he was getting into.

First off, it took 26 hours and 5 transfers to get from PA to IN...it's normally a 9 hour drive. And if you miss your connection, or the bus is full and there's no room, you're stuck in some shady bust stop until the next bus comes which might be more than a day away.

Then there's the people. Between Johnstown and Pittsburgh, two nasty fat women in PJs got on carrying all of their worldy possessions in what seemed like about 55 plastic walmart bags...it took them about 20 minutes to get it all on. They proceeded to be loud, obnoxious, and foul for the rest of the trip...and they smelled horrible.

I almost got stuck in Cleveland, but managed to squeak into an open seat somehow...a bunch of people got left behind. Then the driver missed her exit on the turnpike and we had to go 40 miles out of the way to get back to where we were supposed to go.

In Toledo, the bus had no coolant in the radiator, so I helped the driver haul water from the bathroom and fill it using a funnel I made out of a coke bottle. Somewhere between Toledo and Ft Wayne some lady in the back of the bus started screaming at the driver for no reason, so he stopped and told her to get off, which she refused to do. That lasted for about 10 minutes until he gave up and kept going...and she just kept screaming.

When we finally got to Ft. Wayne, the next driver didn't want to take my bag because he said it was too heavy. It hadn't been an issue on any of the other 4 busses, but he wasn't going to let me on. Thankfully the other driver who I'd helped with the radiator had my back and told him to shut up and load it.

After that experience, I swore if I ever needed to make a trip like that again, I'd just buy a cheap car and hope it made it. Risking breaking down on the side of the road would be massively preferable to ever setting foot on a Greyhound again.

Amtrack is owned by the US Government.
Amtrack loses close to a billion dollars a year.
That is payed by the US taxpayers.
They pay to run on the freight railroads track except in areas that they own commuter lines. It isn't profitable for the railroads compared to the lucrative freight they haul. That is a lot of taxpayer money so someone can have a nostalgic ride on a train.
Don't believe me? Do some research.

The German rail is, or was, very good. Trains ran on time, the stations were easy to navigate, and the trains were clean and fast. I’m referring to the ICE trains that only stop in the big cities.

I road the train regularly when I was going to FLTCE (Foreign Language Training Center Europe) in Munich for several months for a school. I lived in Augsburg about 60 KMs away. I could jump on the ICE train in the AM to Munich and then take the Strassenbahn from the train station to the Kaserne that housed the language center. All rail, a little over an hour.

+

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:
Welcome to $10/gallon gas. The trains in Europe are subsidized by a massive gasoline tax. You get what you pay for. Germans pay a tremendous amount of "transportation tax" to have a world class rail system, which makes some level of sense when you have 1/4 of our population, but only 3.63% of our size.

Rail only works when the distances between key points are short enough to make it a better option then air. Driving distance from Munich to Kiel, which is roughly Germany's southern most city to it's northern most is 552 miles, whereas in the US driving distance from Miami to Macon, GA is 586 miles. Macon is an hour south of Atlanta, and who the hell wants to go to Macon?

Cost per mile based on distances and population density in the US strongly favors air travel over rail, and that is why our rail system sucks. There's no economic incentive to make it better, and no one wants to pay the taxes.

Nailed it.
This is always a hot topic amongst the liberals, comparing the US to every other country's train travel experience. It simply comes down to what ArtieS pointed out: population, distance and govt subsidization are the major factors into why its different over here, than over there. Railways in the US primarily move freight, over in Europe they're used primarily to move people. Freight trains there are limited to routes and times, versus commuters and travelers have a much broader variety of schedule options to choose.

When I travel to Europe, I try to utilize the train as much as possible. Let somebody else do the driving, the stations are located in the heart of where I want to go and I don't need to worry about parking or, driving down a restricted street. I'm also not under any illusion that what works there, could easily be duplicated to the US.

I always thought we subsized amtrak to be able to do mass evacuations - but we didn’t use it in Katrina, so…

Oddly, Brightline is quite nice - though commie on weapons, and private. But FL has a very concentrated population.

If they can get permission to go faster - the local government slowed them down for hitting too many homeless - which is absurd.

Someone lays down on a track they do so intentionally

My rail experiences are limited, but I have no complaints about them (other than the Walnut Ridge, Arkansas station has no conveniences). In the US, I've ridden AMTRAK from Chicago to Seattle, with 4 days and nights in Glacier National Park. Loved the trip. Twice I've ridden round trip from Chicago to Walnut Ridge and back -- the ride was OK and I enjoyed it. Scheduling was not the greatest -- arrivals and departures from Walnut Ridge not very convenient. I've ridden the train between Denali and Fairbanks in Alaska twice -- nice ride. In Canada I rode from Vancouver, BC to Halifax, NS. Loved the views and comfort, but experience not much different from that of AMTRAK.

I like trains because I'm not doing the driving and can enjoy the scenery and take photos. Planes are fast but you can't see anything but clouds and maybe a mountain top. I've ridden trains in Europe and agree that they are better, but the ones in the US are good enough for me to enjoy.

I've not included "tour" trains (narrow rail ones in Colorado and North Carolina) in the discussion because they are not true carriers. They are fun, of course.

flashguy

Not every train in Germany/Europe is a mega money high speed luxury experience.

We took a train from Munich to Rome, overnight accommodations, 6 to a room, and the last room next to the shitter room. The train was clean but older, the speed was acceptable, the stops overnight for passport checks in Austria and Italy slowed the pace.

The shitter was a small room with a hole in the floor, there was a toilet but the bottom was cut out and you could see the track below.

What was cool was while everyone else slept I was wide awake as we got close to Rome and got to watch the sunrise over the fields outside the city, the Roman Aqueducts.

But it wasn't much better than current Amtrack

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

The shitter was a small room with a hole in the floor, there was a toilet but the bottom was cut out and you could see the track below.

Passengers will please refrain
From flushing toilets while the train
Is in the station. Darling, I love you!
We encourage constipation
While the train is in the station
Moonlight always makes me think of you.

I rode several times back in 1997-2000 timeframe up and down the east coast. Longest trip was from Baltimore to Sanford FL.

Back then you could smoke on the train, and stay up and play cards or hang out with people in the diner car. It was tolerable.

But I always thought they had a funny smell.

We've taken the Auto Train a few times (both directions) over the years. I don't know that the the ride was ever as smooth as some of the high-speed European jobs, but in the past couple of years it seems to have gotten worse. Amtrak doesn't own the tracks, so they're at mercy of CSX (for the most part) for upkeep of the rail bed, etc. The comfort of Amtrak customers obviously won't be a high priority for CSX, and it's not as if Amtrak can find a better set of tracks to use in protest.

As far as the rolling stock itself, "Beat up" is a fair description over the past few years. It looks like they've been steadily deferring non-safety maintenance, along with steadily reducing actual services on the train, while raising ticket prices.

Our first few times it was actually a better value than driving (assuming we'd stay overnight en route) and we had the benefit of being able to drink, sleep, and generally stretch out comfortably... all things that wouldn't have been as much fun on a marathon straight-through drive to visit the Mouse. Not so much anymore, even with the higher gasoline prices.

We've generally been a bit younger than our fellow passengers. Some of the ones we've met have been riding regularly since the service began, and will bend your ear for as long as you'll allow them about how things USED to be.

Someone in the rail industry explained to me that you can have an excellent rail system for moving freight or for moving people. You really can’t have both. The recent events in OH notwithstanding, the US picked freight ages ago. The investment in track and right of way means there is no going back.