I agree with you on Memphis. Has he considered Belmont University school of law or Nashville school of law?

The problem with career advice is you generally are asking individuals about a future situation, and they give advice based on past results.

I work in recruiting, and am fairly young. Top 10 MBA, was married to a lawyer, best friends are lawyers, and my passion is school and career choices. I’m giving this background so you understand the basis for my feedback.

First, ignore any advice regarding individuals near the end of their careers. Many partners etc make a ton of money, but you are seeing survivorship bias; also, there were a LOT less JDs or people in law school in 1990 than there are today. Supply is up drastically, salaries for all but the top schools are down drastically as well (adjusted for inflation).

Let’s take Memphis Law. Average starting salary for them is $55k, according to the most recent data.

Memphis Law tuition is $45k a year in-state, I’m assuming you don’t live in Memphis so that figure includes the school calculation for room & board. Memphis Law Tuition

Unless he studies something near worthless at Memphis for undergrad, that $55k starting salary as a lawyer is roughly equal to what he would make 3 years earlier as an undergrad, with roughly $150k less debt. The delta is even worse, because we are ignoring the roughly $55k yearly (+ raises) that he will have made by the time he graduates law school, which is $300k overall ($135k debt, $165k lost earnings).

At the start of his career, he is $300k WORSE off than if he just did a Memphis undergrad. Oh, by the way, that’s IF he doesn’t drop out of ML (16% dropout rate), IF he passes the bar (10% failure rate overall) and IF he gets a job (15% do not get jobs). Doing a straight calculation, he’s roughly got a 64% chance of even getting that $55k, with a 36% chance of lots of debt and nothing to show for it.

Let me be absolutely frank with you, because this is the advice I wish my dad had given me; sit down, and work all these numbers out with him. Do a budget, with a $55k starting salary, and $150k in debt. It won’t look pretty.

My advice, for someone who is 17 now, is to ONLY look at a T14 law school (that’s top 14). Sadly, tuition has risen so fast that downright shitty law schools are almost the same cost as the absolute top. Those schools will give him that salary and connections that he wants if he’d like to go into law or government, and will also allow him to pay back that debt.

Postgraduate degrees, but in particular law schools, have a very unique bimodal distribution. Nearly everyone gets paid absolute crap, but if you go to a great school you make “Lawyer money”. The sad part is nearly everyone paid “law school tuition”, with a negative ROI.

You’ve raised a good kid. Don’t cripple his future like this, and if he is really that smart he will get in to a great top law school, which are worth the cost. Suggest that he study something he’d be ok doing instead of law as well, that will be financially rewarding in case law doesn’t work out.

Good luck.

So Memphis, is his girl friend talking about going there LOL... If I were attending university in TN especially law, Vanderbilt would be the top of the list for undergrad studies, UT in Knoxville second.

Heck he may decide to change paths during undergrad, it's very common, and I like Arties suggestion, get an MBA, or at least a BS/BA in Business Administration, then law, not all attorneys are Perry Mason, many find great careers inside corporations as the legal liaison.

Undergrad work is important to getting into a top level law school, and Vanderbilt is going to carry more weight when it comes time to go to law school than Memphis or UT, it's known as the Harvard of the South.

Researched the ranking on Memphis Law School - Cecil Humphreys School of Law, it's a mid tier program, depending on what area you want to go into.

Link

It's awards are below and it's focus on which student body is important is clear... Not that there is anything wrong with it, but it is an indicator of managements focus for that school of law.

PreLaw/National Jurist:

Three time winner of Best Law School building/facilities

2019: Top School for Tax Law, Top School for Health Law, Employment (law firms) Honor Roll

2020: Top Law School for Advocacy, Best Schools for African Americans, Named as “One of the Best Law Schools for Diversity”

2021: Top School for Tax Law, Top School for Health Law

2022: Top Trial Advocacy School, Diversity Honor Roll, Best Law School for African Americans

Additional rankings/honors for diversity:

Memphis Law was ranked in the Top 25 for Law Degrees Awarded to African Americans in Diverse Education Magazine's compiled rankings of the
Top 100 Producers of Minority Graduate Degrees in the country in 2018.

Listed by Enjuris as a Top 10 Law School for Black Students.

Awarded the INSIGHT into Diversity Magazine 2015 Higher Education Excellence in Diversity (HEED) award. Memphis Law was one of five law schools in the country to receive this award.
Ranked one of the Top 5 Best Regional Law Schools for Black Students and a Best Bargain Law School for Black Students by Lawyers of Color Magazine.

In 2013, Memphis Law was recognized by the Council on Legal Education Opportunity (CLEO) at its 45th Anniversary Celebration and honored as a member of the inaugural group of "William A. Blakey Diversity Pipeline Architects" for its access and diversity efforts.

He’s 17. He’s got all of undergrad to figure it out. Most folks change their major. His undergrad major matters less than the grades he gets. People tend to do better in subjects they’re more interested in. Certain majors are more beneficial to practicing in certain areas. Writing skills more so. As he progresses through undergrad he should consider where he wants to work and what kind of work he wants to do when applying to law school if that remains his path. A T14 is great in theory and offers the most options but a solid regional school with substantial scholarship money might be a better path depending on his end goal.

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
He absolutely needs a "real" undergrad.

PoliSci/English/History etc are all wastes of effort, if he's going to law school.

Accounting, or STEM will double his earning potential.

A dual MBA/JD is a great program.

Law School is emotionally traumatizing. Not entirely sure why, but it has quite an effect.

It does teach useful skills, and may be a bit easier to take, if he knows he's not going to practice.

I'll disagree. If he wants to work on government, then PoliSci/English/History etc., would be good undergrad degrees to have. Or even graduate degrees. An undergrad business or accounting degree would be great if he wants an in-house job.

Memphis has a fine reputation and program for any in-state work. Vandy has more out of state prestige but costs a lot more. UT has comparable cost but is a little harder to get into. Belmont is newer and I believe higher cost being private but without the name recognition.

Nashville School of Law is another option but practice options are limited to primarily TN.

An alternative route for government work is a Masters in Public Administration. I think career options are more limited. It’s an extension of political science.

He needs to look closely at his academic ability as well. Generally this is a competitive admission process. Getting in is the hard part. Very few dropped out from my experience.

I’ve been through the process in the same state looking at all the same schools. If he wants it, he can make it happen. Building experience and networking are huge factors in job opportunities after graduation. Always fight for those top tier clerking opportunities.

quote:

Originally posted by Dallas239:

I'll disagree. If he wants to work on government, then PoliSci/English/History etc., would be good undergrad degrees to have. Or even graduate degrees.

Which skill set do those offer, which he will not get in law school?