quote:

Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:
My 17 year old decided he wants to go to law school and get into government.

I don't really want him in Memphis but he's looking at University of Memphis and their law school.

Guess I need to work harder to cover law school.

I hope he choose's differently when he grows up. That is not something to aspire to.

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:

quote:

Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:
My 17 year old decided he wants to go to law school and get into government.

I don't really want him in Memphis but he's looking at University of Memphis and their law school.

Guess I need to work harder to cover law school.

I hope he choose's differently when he grows up. That is not something to aspire to.

Do tell…

-Rob

I wouldn't try to talk him out of it if he really wants to do it.
Maybe quiz the motivation.
If you really want to make sure he is dedicated - let him pay for it.
A law degree can be very useful in business life even if you don't practice.

I got undergrad degrees in Psychology and Public Relations. Went to law school and do real estate work, essentially I do public relation and psychology all day with a legal tint to it. In law school I added an MBA to my law degree, had to go to the local community college to finish the biz degree from college, I had to take like macro economics and an accounting class or two.

It was a mess of a law school schedule doing law, MBA and community college at the same time.

I can say I am never going back to school again. There are plenty of my friends who got business degrees and an MBA and make for more money than I do. But I can structure my day in ways they cannot comprehend. I have family flexibilty and Ill take that all day long while my kids are kids.

Rob, My comment is not a dig on the profession. I do not think it needs more explanation than that.

He absolutely needs a "real" undergrad.

PoliSci/English/History etc are all wastes of effort, if he's going to law school.

Accounting, or STEM will double his earning potential.

A dual MBA/JD is a great program.

Law School is emotionally traumatizing. Not entirely sure why, but it has quite an effect.

It does teach useful skills, and may be a bit easier to take, if he knows he's not going to practice.

My daughter just started/enrolled in Memphis for pre law.

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
He absolutely needs a "real" undergrad.

PoliSci/English/History etc are all wastes of effort, if he's going to law school.

Accounting, or STEM will double his earning potential.

A dual MBA/JD is a great program.

Law School is emotionally traumatizing. Not entirely sure why, but it has quite an effect.

It does teach useful skills, and may be a bit easier to take, if he knows he's not going to practice.

“Real” undergrad? STEM is fine if you want to do patent law or maybe products liability. Accounting if you want to do tax.

Lots of areas in-between. Ability to communicate effectively is probably the number one skill called for in the legal profession.

I have to disagree about a JD/MBA. If you want to practice law, practice law. If you want to work in business management, get an accounting degree. The only reason to get an MBA that makes sense is if you are in a corporate role, and your employer requires it for a promotion. Generalist graduate degrees in this economy (without corresponding experience) aren't worth it. Everyone seems to have an MBA now, and there are for profit diploma mills churning out new graduates at an astonishing rate.

If your son wants to pursue law as a career, I wouldn't discourage him. I would, however, make sure he gets some experience working in a law firm during college. He may get to college and decide to go down another path. It is hard to have a good sense of the best path at 17, before you've even tackled the first semesters in college.

Keep in mind too that the legal market is changing, and will continue to do so. In 5 or 6 years it may or may not make sense to study law, depending on how things shake out.

He may change his mind at some point sure. But he loves politics, minutia of how laws and government work, etc. Ill brag on him for a minute, he's always had an analytical mind, even as a kid he didnt want to play with the train, he wanted to design the track layout, see how it all went together, etc.

He reads long dry history books, political books about inner workings of different types of governments across the world and through history. He is a straight A student in all Honors and AP classes. Is in the chess club, speech and debate club, Renaissance club, Virtual Enterprise, and is one step away from his black belt in Tae Kwon Do.

He loves to debate, and is a very specific and detail orientated person. He is also a serious sarcastic smart ass. Must be from his mother....

He already has some college credits from dual enrollment and AP classes. University of Memphis has some advantages if you do pre law there and then go to the law school there too. He has just started to look but the Memphis folks have given him a lot of info he seems to like. No decisions have been made yet.

By happenstance, I have about a half dozen good friends who are attorneys. One is a judge, a few are partners, etc. One thing I can say about all of these guys, they make a TON of money.

My daughter (15 years old) spent the day at the courthouse witnessing a murder trial earlier this year. It has her thinking about law school.

I have had conversations with some of them about this. One of them said, "Do not worry about what undergrad degree you get. It should be something you are interested in, preferably easy, cause you will work your butt off in law school." Another is a litigator, he said "I do not care where the degree is from, if a kid can argue cases in front of a jury I will hire him."

Those sayings may not apply in all cases, but it's coming from guys in the profession.

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:

quote:

Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:
My 17 year old decided he wants to go to law school and get into government.

I don't really want him in Memphis but he's looking at University of Memphis and their law school.

Guess I need to work harder to cover law school.

I hope he choose's differently when he grows up. That is not something to aspire to.

^^^^
I'll echo Rob, "Do tell."

quote:

Originally posted by abnmacv:
3 things I never encourage: Getting married, joining USMC and law school.

LOL, I did all three and have had a damned good life thus far. Did an enlistment in the Corps, been married 33 years, and am coming up on retirement in a couple of years.

As others have said, law school is a major commitment. I wouldn't suggest he go to law school unless he knows that the exact job he wants to do requires the Juris Doctor degree.

quote:

Originally posted by CoolRich59:

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
What attracts him to Memphis specifically? Is it simply the location/proximity to home?

Because there are a number of much higher rated law schools within a several hour radius of Memphis, most of which would be a better/safer location. Stuff like University of Tennessee, University of Arkansas, Vanderbilt, University of Alabama, University of Missouri, St. Louis University, University of Kentucky, Emory, etc.

Those are all in the Top 100 (and several in the Top 50) and are all within 1 to 6 hours of Memphis, while University of Memphis ranks ~125... and is in Memphis.

Great point. My former boss, one of the smartest lawyers, I know says: 1. You go to one of the elites (Harvard, Yale, Stanford, U of Chicago, etc. (assuming you can get in and afford it). 2. If not, you go for the best regional school you can get in in the area you plan on living/working. For example, if you plan on living in Atlanta, try to get into Emory.

Agreed. That prestigious school is no guarantee, but it is better to have it than not, especially at the start of your career.

I also agree with Milliron - be sure you want it.

And he is young. This may not last.

I have an MBA and a masters in HR. Only thing they've been useful for is putting letters after my last name. What I should have done was go to law school after my MBA instead of pursuing another masters degree.

Looking back at it, if I were 17, I'd probably joined the Navy as a SeaBee and picked up HVAC or electrical as a trade. But sticking with the education theme, I'd gone for STEM or accounting and gone the CPA route.

He could, and likely will, change his mind by the time he gets a couple years of undergrad in. The world is constantly changing.

One thing I definitely wouldn't recommend is joining the military of today. The military of tomorrow probably isn't going to get better. He can do better.

If he sticks with this route of what he sees himself doing, these are the 3 things that will set him up for success: network, good grades, network.

The power of a network/referral can't be measured.

My daughter just graduated from UC Irvine with a degree in Quantitative Ecomnomics and has decided she might want to go to Law School also...no I don't know why.

The good thing is that she is practical and understands that she needs a job first before pursuing that path...rather than expect her parents to foot the bill (plus she might change her mind again)

She is getting hire by Knobbe Martens (Intellectual Properties)as a Docket Agent (I had to look it up) and they seemed, during the interview, supportive of her desire to pursue a law degree.

We shall see

Agreed. That prestigious school is no guarantee, but it is better to have it than not, especially at the start of your career.[/quote
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I have worked with many lawyers over the years. Met some really obnoxious individuals. I have had the opportunity to work with many white shoe firms as well. They were nice, prompt and paid on time. Social skills and the ability to communicate are both very important.
I absolutely hate the attorney who attempts to push me around with the threat of a subpoena.

I'm not qualified to weigh in, and my degrees have nothing to do with law, but I feel all my hard sciences and math undergraduate work help me understand lots of topics better than I otherwise could. I imagine the same could be true for certain kinds of law, and not just directly, but indirectly as well.

While not a fan of the legal profession (I only lasted 5 years before I gave it up), I never regretted going to law school and would never discourage anyone from going. The one thing I would absolutely recommend to anyone thinking about law school is to consider a joint JD/MBA program. They aren't easy to get into it, but they open up a much wider array of lucrative career opportunities.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
I was seriously considering continuing on to law school during my undergrad ~20 years ago. I was given advice back then that may or may not hold true today: Get your undergraduate in something besides Criminal Justice/Political Science/Pre-Law.

I'll weigh in as an attorney that graduated law school in 2006 and has been practicing since then. My undergrad degrees were a dual BS in Justice Systems and Psychology. I started out wanting to be law enforcement but my sub-20/200 uncorrected vision and lackluster physique were going to be a problem. I ended up aiming for law school with something psychology as a backup.

I went to a regional law school, did OK but not great, graduated during a horrible hiring time for lawyers, the market was saturated as everyone was going to law school then but landed a job at a small firm in St. Louis. Passed the MO and IL bars and practiced for 5 years before later moving to Iowa where I've been practicing since. I married my wife during my St. Louis time. She had gone to the same undergrad as me but received a BS in Biology. I received zero student aid from the law school and maxed Stafford loans for it, the first year cost less than the $18,500 yearly max but the last year was around $20,000, $55,500 in student loans and you are not allowed to work at all your first year. Tuition at the law school I attended is now $45,000/yr and the average starting wage of lawyers has only marginally increased unless you make it into "Big Law."

My wife in contrast went to grad school and received her PhD in Biology, her grad school was free and she was PAID a stipend. She makes plenty more than I do in her corporate job today. I used to think PhDs were some sort of mythical pedestal until I saw some of the caliber of her classmates, many of which were foreign and milking their Student Visas for everything they could get. It got me thinking I had chosen wrongly as that was a particularly stressful time for me. I would sit in traffic in St. Louis watching Union laborers building things with heavy equipment, tired, but able to go home at the end of the day knowing they accomplished something and leave work at work until tomorrow. Me? I had to prepare all night for another day of some divorce trial where each side was hell bent on proving to a judge that has heard it all why the other is Satan incarnate.

Would I do it again? Maybe. I like helping people. I like the adversarial process. I like stepping into a 100+ year old courthouse with a client just like attorneys have been doing for over a century before me. There are easier ways to make more money. The stress of law school and the unpredictability of the job can be frustrating. You seriously have to keep an eye on "work/life balance" and that puts a check on income because your time is your income.

A friend of mine from law school has his BS in Biology and has always worked for the US Patent office since law school and is doing well. He could have an even more lucrative career in private work.

If your son ends up going to law school, find a niche like that in an area few attorneys practice in: patent law, tax law, 1031 exchanges, health law, immigration, etc. Otherwise, small towns are hurting for lawyers, do the "county seat practice", it can be very rewarding as life moves a little slower and judges, attorneys, and prosecutors can be more amiable and forgiving than big city.